Gordon Highlander sporran

[David Dubh]

So for some bizzar reason I stopped into a local antique shop. Seen it many times never went in. So I'm poking around and behind the counter I spy a horse hair sporran. I ask the girl to see it (she doesn't know what a sporran is). It is a Gordan Highlanders sporran with a silver cantle (quite tarnished) with thistles and the Gordon insignia on it they say it is from between the wars, on the back of the sporran cantle is a halmark I beleive it says Lawrie Glasgow. It looks to be in very good condition complete with worn brown strap and a small pouch in back white horse hair with black tassels.
They had it priced at $450 which I can't afford at this time. I'm wondering if anyone has one like this or has seen one like it, unfortunately I don't have pictures.

not sure if this belongs here or not. mods please move it if this is the wrong section

[McFarkus]

Generally a British silver piece has four hallmarks, one indicating it's sterling (which varies depending on whether it's England, Wales, Ireland or Scotland), a city mark, a date mark and a maker's mark. Here's a link for the basics http://www.925-1000.com/british_marks.html

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

CDN $450 is a definitely a bargain if not quite an outright gift.

[acolander]

Sounds like a Gordon officer's sporran, a silver cantle likely indicates it is a TA/Reserve officer's sporran as opposed to Regular/Active. TA regiments usually wore silver lace/braid/etc in lieu of gilt worn by Regulars. If so, its a bargain depending upon overall condition and possibly a gift as MacMillan said.

What's the name of that shop again?? ;)

The cones for the two black tassels will vary from black leather covered or engraved metal ones as in the pic below, but does it look similar to this perhaps...

[OC Richard]

Sounds like a Gordon officer's sporran, a silver cantle likely indicates it is a TA/Reserve officer's sporran as opposed to Regular/Active. TA regiments usually wore silver lace/braid/etc in lieu of gilt worn by Regulars.

If the cantle is silver and lacks knobs, I would say yes, it's a Territorial Army officer's sporran.

However if the cantle is silver and it has three knobs it's a piper's sporran. The Regular Army pipers also wore silver acoutrements in some regiments.

In this photo you can see both the piper's sporran with three knobs and silver cantle, and the officer's sporran with no knobs and brass cantle. The officer's sporran is worn with five gilt braid tassels for some modes of dress, but with two black horsehair tassels in gilt cones for other modes of dress. (The five tassels harks back to the days when the Gordon Highlanders, and indeed all kilted Highland regiments, wore either five or six short tassels on their sporrans. The Gordon OR's sporran was black with five white tassels, up until around 1880 when they switched to a white sporran with two long black tassels.)

[David Dubh]

Ok Im going to try and post some pictures that I took of this sporran

[OC Richard]

I see. That's completely different from the usual Gordon Highlanders sporran, or indeed the sporran of any Scottish Highland regiment.

If someone were to bring this in off the street, with no known provenance, I would immediately assume that it's simply a civilian sporran, possibly Edwardian. If it has no military markings or the "broad arrow" etc it makes it likely to be civilian.

That deerhead badge put on looks like the cap badge of the Seaforth Highlanders in miniature, but that's widely seen on civilian things as well.

Here's two civilians c1868 with that motif as cap badges, on sporrans, on the waistbelt buckle, and even knit into hose:



That's not to say that it couldn't be military! In most regiments pipers wore sporrans different from the rest of the regiment. Beyond that, the Pipe Majors of the regiments usually have a sporran different from the rest of the other pipers. In fact the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders Pipe Major and Drum Major have worn for many years a sporran somewhat like yours (but no deerhead on it).



Now here's a photo of some Pipe Majors c1900 and you can see that the PM of the Gordon Highlanders is wearing a sporran completely different from anything the rest of the regiment would wear. So, anything goes with PMs!
By the way the man on the far left is PM of the Seaforths so you can see the usual Seaforths PM sporran.



Yours could be a Seaforths PM, though it's quite different than any Seaforth Highlanders sporrans I've seen. All the ones I've seen have been like the one worn by the Seaforths PM above, a sheetmetal cantle in either brass or silver (depending on whether it's the 1st Battalion or the 2nd Battalion) with the Seaforths cap badge in miniature and battle honours on it. No knobs.

Oftentimes the Pipe Major will wear a sporran cantle and/or waistbelt buckle and/or crossbelt hardware that started life as a civilian pattern, for example the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards PM's waistbelt/crossbelt set and the current Black Watch PM's waistbelt/crossbelt set.

[creagdhubh]

I love hair sporrans! Great convo and photos above!