Evilbay find.

[Captain_Cogle]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-JACOBITE...item25679a6d2b

Personally I call BS on it. The sporran is totally wrong for that period. I am guessing its Victorian, if that. Skeptical as well if you had something that original and that collectable, you would be more inclined to take it to an antiques auctioneer rather than post it on Ebay. However, they are both pretty nice. I wouldn't mind having them in my collection.

What do you guys think?

[Oddern]

It's interesting that he uses a Norwegian word for his e-bay name, "Kunsthandler" (art dealer in English), but he's located in the US.
Skål!

[CDNSushi]

Not necessarily BS... Having watched enough of these shows like Pawn Stars, it's more likely they took it in to be valued, sold, or whatever, and were offered a price they weren't happy with or willing to accept, for whatever reason.

If I put myself into the shoes of a pawn shop owner and someone came in with these items, not only would I need to establish provenance, (and just because the seller SAYS it was examined by a curator doesn't mean anything) but I'd have to be assured a market for resale. And it just seems to me that it might be a fairly limited market.

So I'd say it's possible -- yes, but you'd likely be overpaying for something quite possibly worth a lot less, and without actually physically handling the items, would have no idea what you were actually getting into.

[Captain_Cogle]

Not necessarily BS... Having watched enough of these shows like Pawn Stars, it's more likely they took it in to be valued, sold, or whatever, and were offered a price they weren't happy with or willing to accept, for whatever reason.

If I put myself into the shoes of a pawn shop owner and someone came in with these items, not only would I need to establish provenance, (and just because the seller SAYS it was examined by a curator doesn't mean anything) but I'd have to be assured a market for resale. And it just seems to me that it might be a fairly limited market.

So I'd say it's possible -- yes, but you'd likely be overpaying for something quite possibly worth a lot less, and without actually physically handling the items, would have no idea what you were actually getting into.

My BS was about what period he claims they are from. There is just no way that sporran is Jacobite era. And I think his claim that he has never seen a sporran that old in Scotland is laughable unless he has not visited very many museums.

[artificer]

I'm no historical expert, but there's a lot that seems unusual (at least to my eye) about the sporran.

1) the rather clumsy execution of the trim and stitching on the face. If the builder was going to make something with all that delicate tooling and broguing, it's odd that they'd be so ham-fisted when it came to the most visible area of the bag.

That's not to say that there might not have been repairs to the piece.

2) I've never seen belt loops of this nature on a piece from this era (if the seller is correct in his dating). What I've nearly always seen is a large, single-piece loop at the top of the bag that allows it to hang DOWN from the belt, not be attached directly TO the belt.

3) There appears to be a hole in the lower section of the flap (in the closed position) that would indicate a stud, knot, or lace, but there is no evidence on the body of such an attachment point.

4) I'd like to see an interior shot of the bag. The visible stitching on the edges of the gusset is micro-tiny, and I'm interested to see just what the body construction is, especially given the coarseness of the stitch on the flap.

5) general shape. I'm with Capt. C here. I've never seen another bag of this shape at the age claimed. I'm not saying that one doesn't exist, with such varied personal styling in Highland wear, it's entirely possible that some adventurous Scot who'd been abroad had a bag like this commissioned based on a style he'd seen in Europe.

BUT (again), it's very odd. Especially given the bits cited above. I hope our OC_Richard or others with more historical knowledge will see this and weigh in.

[Taygrd]

Having been a collector of edged weapons for a few years I would be very leary of these two items. Usually an experienced and reputable seller would list these items individually and have mulitiple pictures. The blade looks incorrect for the period he states it is. Plus the patina on the dirk handle does not look correct and the active rust by the hilt concerns me as well. I would say this is a Victorian era dirk made for the civilian market, however I would not be will to put more than a 100 dollars on it. Everything looks a little too contrived

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

And $64.95 for shipping? He's looking to make just a little profit from the shipping, eh?

[figheadair]

I tend to agree with what others have said.

Dirk - there's something about the blade that just doesn't look right but I'm by no means an expert on edged weapons.

Sporran - again, there's something strange about this. The 'belt loops' are of course in the wrong place being at the front under the flap and so cannot be for a belt to my mind. If so, how does it attach if it is a sporran? The main front and back pieces are carved which suggests that they're pieces of leather from something else that's been used/reused. The stitching looks pretty roppy too.

What really worries me is why one would think that fleebay would be a better place to offer genuine historical items of this claimed era as opposed to a specialist sale room.

[artificer]

It's interesting that he uses a Norwegian word for his e-bay name, "Kunsthandler" (art dealer in English), but he's located in the US.
Skål!

It means the same in German as well.

I tend to agree with what others have said.

Dirk - there's something about the blade that just doesn't look right but I'm by no means an expert on edged weapons.

Sporran - again, there's something strange about this. The 'belt loops' are of course in the wrong place being at the front under the flap and so cannot be for a belt to my mind. If so, how does it attach if it is a sporran? The main front and back pieces are carved which suggests that they're pieces of leather from something else that's been used/reused. The stitching looks pretty roppy too.

What really worries me is why one would think that fleebay would be a better place to offer genuine historical items of this claimed era as opposed to a specialist sale room.

Peter, I think you've mis-read the flap/belt loop placement.

If you look again at the center pic, the belt loops are on the back. What we're seeing of the flap is the shagreen outer face, which means the bag is "full open" but lying on the front face.

That said, it's odd, odd, odd. I agree that if this chap were a legitimate dealer he's be better served selling this though as specialist auctioneer/seller.

ith:

[artificer]

Well chaps, someone either knows something we don't or is "about to get took"

currently at $3500US (just to get the reserve off)!

ith: