Relevance of the Scottish Store?

[Colin]

With the recent arrival of my dress sporran and quaich, I started to think of the advantages and disadvantages of Scottish shops versus online stores.

This all started when my folks came back from 10 days in Palm Springs. They had popped into a local Scottish store when there, and had brought information about the shop back. Apparently the owner was very knowledgeable and helpful. I was looking over the price list that they came back with, and I was blown away by the prices. Even after tax and duty, a kilt from this place would have cost me $150 more than I paid for a kilt from Scotland.

I started to think back to my own local store. It is a great shop and always fun to check in to. However, I have never ordered anything substantial from them due to the hugely inflated prices. Let's look at what I ordered online veruses what I would have spent supporting a local business.

Ordered:
Kilt 16oz handsewn in Jura range wool
online- $516.65 before tax
local shop- $895.00 before tax

Charcoal tweed jacket and waistcoat
online - $380 before tax and duty
local shop - $628 before taxes ($459 for the jacket, $169 for the waistcoat)

Dress Sporran with Celtis knot and thistle design cantel
online -$214.40 before taxes
local shop -$399.00 before taxes

So while I would love to actually support the local shops, I just can't see how that makes sense. While I love going into the shop, they do have a pretencious feel to the people working there, prices are outrages, and their wait times are usually triple what I have to deal with ordering direct. Now before we start trying to compare the quality of the products offered, let me point out that both the online and the local shop offer the products from the same suppliers, therefore the quality will be the same.

Are Scottish stores in North America still a viable idea, or has the growth of the internet based Highland dress business (particularly in Scotland) made these shops obsolete? The idea is the same, the products are made by suppliers in the UK and sold through a third party. Neithe rof these businesses sell their own products, but instead broker the deal. I understand rent and overhead costs, but those apply to both firms, and I assume the rent in Scotland is more than here.

Someone explain it to me.

[longshadows]

Yes, it's true that you can get items a lot less expensively online than in a store. Consider the "overhead" with a store alone! There is also a much larger market online that most any storefront merchant can ever hope to have. The volume, the lack of infrastructure and less staff (usually "mon & pop") to pay.

Shopping in a store, feeling the goods, talking to experienced staff are all "luxuries" that many people can't afford or are unwilling to pay any longer.

The Internet is changing the face of shopping in a way never seen before. (Invest in UPS and FedEx!!!)

[davedove]

Well, the local shops are getting the goods from the same shops you can buy from online. So, they have the same costs to get the goods as you do: actual item cost, shipping, duties, etc. Then, they have to add their markup to cover the cost of their operations and a profit.

The only way they could get it cheaper is if they could get quantity discounts, and you just can't do that with custom tailored clothes. And there is probably not enough sales to justify ordering in quantity the things they can.

The only benefit to those stores is being able to actually see and touch merchandise. But even then, you can examine the goods at the store, then go home and order them for less money.

[Colin]

Well, the local shops are getting the goods from the same shops you can buy from online. So, they have the same costs to get the goods as you do: actual item cost, shipping, duties, etc. Then, they have to add their markup to cover the cost of their operations and a profit.

The only way they could get it cheaper is if they could get quantity discounts, and you just can't do that with custom tailored clothes. And there is probably not enough sales to justify ordering in quantity the things they can.

The only benefit to those stores is being able to actually see and touch merchandise. But even then, you can examine the goods at the store, then go home and order them for less money.

I don't completely agree with that, the local shops are getting products from wholesalers (in most cases the same as the online shops), where as I am not.

Now I understand that maybe the local shops are adding the duty to bring the products into the country and are therefore including that and mark up into their price to the consumer, but I am than paying a % or average of duty from a large shipment rather than product specific duty. I think we need to remember that alot of these "mom and pop" shops also do online shipping, so they too are using the chaging environment to meet their cost needs and to bump up their profits.

Yes it is nice to be able and go in and touch the product, see it in person, and maybe walk away with it that day, but is that worth the huge mark up of products?

In most cases, I would think that the online businesses have as much, if not more overhead costs. Luckily for them they reach a bigger market share and split the costs more efficiently. It's not like they are working out of a big warehouse full of product, but employing customer service people, shippers, fiancal people, ect adds up quickly. Most of these online businesses are at a disadvantage that they don't have the "walk in" clients that a local shop has.

Out of curiousity, how many people have a Scottish shop that sells Highland wear near by? I have one within 15 minutes, one downtown Vancouver, and a few others locally.

[Barclay]

Out of curiousity, how many people have a Scottish shop that sells Highland wear near by? I have one within 15 minutes, one downtown Vancouver, and a few others locally.

Talk about lucky! My local Scot shop is The Scottish Tartans Museum shop. I think most of us know how knowledgeable and nice the manager of that store is.

While I do but stuff online, I have bought a good deal of my kit from Matt, including 4 kilts (with 2 more to be ordered soon), sporrans, hose, belts, etc. While the prices may be a bit higher, though I've not found them to be prohibitively higher, I find a lot of comfort in knowing that if I have a problem or an issue I can call or show up at Matt's door and ask him to fix it and I know that he will - I'm not so sure that the same is true of online vendors, necessarily. Besides, every single time that I'm in Matt's shop I come away knowing something new about history, a tartan, our shared heritage, etc. That kind of knowledge, not to mention the friendship that's built over time, is
worth the extra dollars. I also like that Matt is extremely focused on quality and offers only high quality goods which will naturally be a bit more expensive.

I'll still buy stuff online - online vendors like Jerry at Stillwater have always provided a great product for a great price. But I'll always buy some stuff locally because I like Matt, I like Matt's products, and I always look forward to spending time in Matt's store. And he offers service that no online vendor can match. My hat is off to Matt, Ronan and Chuck.

[macwilkin]

The only benefit to those stores is being able to actually see and touch merchandise. But even then, you can examine the goods at the store, then go home and order them for less money.

This can actually be turned to the advantage of the store, though: remember "Miracle on 34th Street" where Macy's sent customers to other stores because they had lower prices, and customer loyalty was created as a result? I may not buy a kilt at the local Scottish store, but I would darn sure by other "kit" there if the store did something like that.

The problem is that if the average person decides to make the plunge and get the complete highland outfit it is so expensive that they are only going to use this for special occassions. The thought of buying additional goodies to turn this into something they can enjoy more often won't occur to them because of the fabulously high cost. The higher the price, the less people will buy it, making the shop owner increase prices to make a better profit on those that do, etc. etc. I think it's interesting that most Scottish Shops don't seem to offer any alternative to the full 8 yard tank. It would probably attract a lot more buyers who would then get sucked in to what Southern Breeze sums up by saying "Welcome to the addiction". Heck they would wind up selling more tanks rather than less.

I think I should point out here that not everyone is out to wear a kilt 24-7, or as a casual garment. As someone pointed out, many customers of Scottish stores are buying items for "heritage" reasons, so the whole concept of a "casual" kilt to wear all the time may not be what they're looking for. And some of us don't mind spending higher prices if you get quality goods -- "you get what you pay for".

Cheers,

Todd

[Colin]

I think I should point out here that not everyone is out to wear a kilt 24-7, or as a casual garment. As someone pointed out, many customers of Scottish stores are buying items for "heritage" reasons, so the whole concept of a "casual" kilt to wear all the time may not be what they're looking for. And some of us don't mind spending higher prices if you get quality goods -- "you get what you pay for".

Cheers,

Todd

Very true Todd, but how much more foot traffic would they get in if they did offer variations on the traditional kilt. If something similar to a Freedom kilt was offered at those locations, think about the bigger market share they have just opened themselves to. Also think about the proper education about the kilt that would be passed along. Getting people in the store is half the battle.

My local Scottish shop will make a handsewn 4 yard kilt for US$295, an 8 yard for US$445. That's an excellent deal, no matter what (those prices may be for 13oz, but that's still a great deal). I wonder why theirs are cheaper, given that rents in their area must be through the roof

That is a great price. My local shop offers 4 yard casual kilts for $499 and 8 yards starting at $799

[macwilkin]

Very true Todd, but how much more foot traffic would they get in if they did offer variations on the traditional kilt. If something similar to a Freedom kilt was offered at those locations, think about the bigger market share they have just opened themselves to. Also think about the proper education about the kilt that would be passed along. Getting people in the store is half the battle.

No arguement from me, Colin -- I was simply pointing out that not everyone is in it for the "casual" thing. I agree, expanding your inventory to attract different clients is a good thing, just that the traditional "rig" tends to take a beating sometime as a "strawman" for why kilts aren't more accepted, cheaper, etc.

Cheers,

Todd

[bikercelt1]

This is a thorny question. My local shop does have higher prices than the internet store, but not as much higher as what you quoted Colin They know me by name and greet me when I walk through the door, and they are are always looking for things that might be interesting to me. I like to spread my purchases between the two sources because I value having a local source and I want to do my part to ensure their success. If their price differential got substantially higher I would have to reevaluate that decision.

The local folks are filling a niche that no computer store can. They participate in most of the Scottish games/events up and down the Oregon and Washington I-5 corridor. They are a focal point for local pipers. They provide lessons, they are members of several local pipe bands, and they sell and service pipes. They have their own online store. (Some stores that we here may think of as internet vendors such as Geoffry(tailor) are in fact store-front operations who do the same thing and send their people to the states to tour the Highland Game circut.) These folks are trying very hard. I can't affort to shop there exclusively, but I feel a responsibility to help their small store survive. While I hate to draw this comparison, this is exactly the same discussion that many of us have had about Walmart versus the Mom & Pop stores. If we only support the mega retailers we will ultimately have limited choices. If we only support the Internet store we will lose the opportunity to "feel the product" before we buy. If we only use the local vendor as a place to touch the product before we order it online cheaper then the local folks will be out of business.

Jamie

[Zardoz]

Colin asked; "Out of curiousity, how many people have a Scottish shop that sells Highland wear near by?"

I live in (near) the third largest city in the US, As far as I know, the nearest highland wear place is in Scotland!