traditional and modern conflicts

**Nick the DSM** · 13th November 07, 04:05 PM

i have a friend at school who i talk about kilts and other celtic items to and we agree on alot of stuff. he is a tradionalist with the kilt, not sure whether he wears anything underneath but he likes everything to be from 1600s style with a few changes. the only modern items he will take is a t shirt and few other things. One time i said my opinions on it, mostly positive and when i ask him- he tears it to shreds saying " they have pockets!" and such. im like ok...then i tell him about stillwater and their items. he didnt know about the site and wanted to know more. i told them that their less expensive than other brands, acrylic and wool kilts, and cheaper accessories. he tore the acrylic to shreds, the wool he liked and when i told him about the nylon sporran with zippers and all, he is like "dude, that is not tradional"

anyone have these problems? i mean hes a cool guy and all but traditional was then, it might not be practical nowadays. like for example: how practical is belted plaid, leather sporran and such in a busy life, say construction? its not is it? a utilikilt would be better suited. nylon sporran with zippers, practical! full leather sporran, depends.

if a scot from back in the day came to the present, im sure he would adapt to the modern items for in his days they used what they had not what was traditional. im sure he would get a utilikilt or a plaid casual with a nylon for comfort.

get what im saying?

thoghts, comments, agreements/disagreements??

**macwilkin** · 13th November 07, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Nick the DSM

i have a friend at school who i talk about kilts and other celtic items to and we agree on alot of stuff. he is a tradionalist with the kilt, not sure whether he wears anything underneath but he likes everything to be from 1600s style with a few changes. the only modern items he will take is a t shirt and few other things. One time i said my opinions on it, mostly positive and when i ask him- he tears it to shreds saying " they have pockets!" and such. im like ok...then i tell him about stillwater and their items. he didnt know about the site and wanted to know more. i told them that their less expensive than other brands, acrylic and wool kilts, and cheaper accessories. he tore the acrylic to shreds, the wool he liked and when i told him about the nylon sporran with zippers and all, he is like "dude, that is not tradional"

anyone have these problems? i mean hes a cool guy and all but traditional was then, it might not be practical nowadays. like for example: how practical is belted plaid, leather sporran and such in a busy life, say construction? its not is it? a utilikilt would be better suited. nylon sporran with zippers, practical! full leather sporran, depends.

if a scot from back in the day came to the present, im sure he would adapt to the modern items for in his days they used what they had not what was traditional. im sure he would get a utilikilt or a plaid casual with a nylon for comfort.

get what im saying?

thoghts, comments, agreements/disagreements??

There's an old saying: "different horses for courses".

Generally, I agree with your friend. I'm a bluff old traditionalists about many things, Highland attire included -- but I am traditionalist only for myself, and would never dream of telling someone to do as I do. I would never dream of trying to "convert" someone, but I'm always willing to have an intelligent and polite discussion with someone who may not agree with me. Gentlemen can agree to disagree without being disagreeable.

Regards,

Todd

**beloitpiper** · 14th November 07, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

There's an old saying: "different horses for courses".

Generally, I agree with your friend. I'm a bluff old traditionalists about many things, Highland attire included -- but I am traditionalist only for myself, and would never dream of telling someone to do as I do. I would never dream of trying to "convert" someone, but I'm always willing to have an intelligent and polite discussion with someone who may not agree with me. Gentlemen can agree to disagree without being disagreeable.

Regards,

Todd

Agreed.

**highlander_Daz** · 14th November 07, 10:27 AM

it used to be a tradition here the dunk women into a pond, and if she died that was proof she wasnt a witch.

Traditions are OK up to a point, bear in mind the things we do today are the "traditions " of tomorrow. sometimes Traditions hold us back if you look at people who break traditions (Hendrix on the guitar, Bruce Lee with martial arts, Gordon Duncan on the bagpipes etc) are often frowned on at the time but actually creat new traditions. you have to move with the times.

**James MacMillan** · 14th November 07, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by highlander_Daz

it used to be a tradition here the dunk women into a pond, and if she died that was proof she wasnt a witch.

Traditions are OK up to a point, bear in mind the things we do today are the "traditions " of tomorrow. sometimes Traditions hold us back if you look at people who break traditions (Hendrix on the guitar, Bruce Lee with martial arts, Gordon Duncan on the bagpipes etc) are often frowned on at the time but actually creat new traditions. you have to move with the times.

Wow am I in agreement with that. I have mentioned the following in private to a few fellow kilt wearers, but not much here.

It seems strange to me, as one who wears the kilt everyday, that more input is not sought from those who actually wear the kilt. I wear the kilt, I know what works. I don’t just strap it on to go to a festival, I wear it everyday! I like the sporran, and I like hose, but other than in jest, I would never think to suggest that another person should only dress the way I choose to. Why should the "traditional" kilt be only made one way? Once it's on, who knows what is inside?

When the traditional kilt was originally designed, things like man-made fabric and Velcro were not around. The only practical fabric of the time was wool; the only way to fasten the kilt was with pins or belts.

We thankfully now have many alternatives.

I live in Southern California and it gets hot here. A full tank made out of wool just isn’t practical for year round daily wear. Sure, a nice tank is great for going out to a special event in the evening, but would I want to strap it on when the mercury is pushing out of the top of the thermometer, and I just want to mow the lawn, or run to the grocery store?

I think that some kilt makers would benefit greatly by listening to the person who they are making the kilt for! Since they are going to be wearing the kilt, their wishes should have some value. If some kilt makers don’t start to be a little flexible, they may well end up only making kilts for the actors on the history channel.

Getting off the soapbox now……..

**macwilkin** · 14th November 07, 11:10 AM

It seems strange to me, as one who wears the kilt everyday, that more input is not sought from those who actually wear the kilt. I wear the kilt, I know what works. I don’t just strap it on to go to a festival, I wear it everyday!

James,

Respectfully -- I don't wear the kilt everyday. I wear it for Scottish functions, educational programs, etc. There's nothing wrong with only wearing the kilt for festivals and other functions if that's what you want to do.

Not being a FT kilt-wearer doesn't make you any less of a kilt-wearer INMHO.

Regards,

Todd

**McFarkus** · 14th November 07, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by highlander_Daz

it used to be a tradition here the dunk women into a pond, and if she died that was proof she wasnt a witch.

She also could be dunked if she nagged her husband, who was allowed (even encouraged) to beat her as long as the stick was no thicker than his forefinger.

**McFarkus** · 14th November 07, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

I would never dream of trying to "convert" someone, but I'm always willing to have an intelligent and polite discussion with someone who may not agree with me. Gentlemen can agree to disagree without being disagreeable.

There's a saying in my family that 'every fellow has his way and every fellow's way is right.' I'm always a little put off by people who want to force their ways on someone else.

**James MacMillan** · 14th November 07, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

Gentlemen can agree to disagree without being disagreeable.

And that's one of the great beauties of this forum!

We discuss things, air views, and still remain civil............

Or am I missing the point.......

**Nick the DSM** · 14th November 07, 02:40 PM

wow, didnt know it would go this fast!

i agree with most of waht has been said and i can see where it is coming from. the nylon sporran i agree is ugly but put it in black and possibly better look, its great but its more practical than some of the leather sporans.

i agree with james, they ARE like jeans. they wont be the same from then and come in different varieties. utilikilts are the amercanized (butchering for some) version of the kilt, does it mean its not a kilt? no just different.