The Kilted Crew

[TatterDel]

Good Day to all. I'm a Scouter (Boy Scouts of America) in TN and my daughter has started a Co-Ed Venturing Crew, BSA. Several of the young men and adult men would like to wear kilts. They have expressed an interest in the Utilikilts, I'm guessing because of their rugged manly look. I'm trying to convince them not to rule out tartan or charcoal gray which is the color of the pants and shorts that Venturing scouts wear. We have had many discussions and I have read many articles that talk of wearing MacLaren tartan (I'm a female Wood Badger, I wear a MacLaren sash). The two things that keep coming up are 1) Is it so wrong to wear a Utilikilt or other brand in similar style? Do they have to be tartan?
2) If the laddies wear kilts... what do the lassies wear on the hiking trail?

Any suggestions? What does the Scout tartan of scotland look like? Can we wear it in the USA?

Aidmheil, Mòralach, Misneach

[Standard]

Tatter,

An intersting question. I'm also the Lead Advisor for a Venture Crew, so I'll be sure to check back on this question often. I'm not sure of the Scottish Scout tartan, but I do know that there is no official American Scout tartan. I have heard of scouters wearing the MacLaren tartan, but personally have no firsthand knowledge of this. Perhapse some of our Scotsmen who are/were scouts could help you out on this one.

BTW to the rabble!

Here is a link that might give you some guidance, not sure how helpful it is for your question, but general info seems good.
http://www.clanmaclarenna.org/CMSNA/...3!OpenDocument

[Coemgen]

First of all, from your friendly local Poor, Starving Liberal Arts Student!

I've been involved in scouting for 7 years, and I just recently became an Eagle Scout; so, I have some experience!

I am also looking to join a venturing crew, and perhaps I could get them kilted (wishful thinking, I know, but still).

Anyhow, this is what the US Scouting Project says re: Venturing uniforms:

Can Crews choose their own uniform?

Yes. If Crews do not want the recommended uniform (see below), they can come up with their own, such as t-shirts or polo shirts with a Crew design on it (YES, they can use the Venturing logo). National also makes Venturing t-shirts and a polo shirt. Or they can choose no uniform. Be aware that the BSA tan shirt is not to be used by Venturers.

What is the Official BSA Uniform for Venturers?

The 'recommended' BSA uniform is the forest green Venturing shirt (with green, silver or gold shoulder loops as appropriate) with charcoal gray shorts or pants. As it's recommended, Crews do not have to choose this as their uniform, but if you are at an event where BSA uniforms are expected (i.e. OA events, council or national events like Jamborees, etc.), you should have and wear it. However, you must follow proper insignia placement with this shirt, including wearing the green loops (or silver or gold loops if that's appropriate for you). Insignia placement is pretty much universal, regardless of the program, youth/adult, or level of scouting.

I recommend that if Crews choose not to use the green shirt as their official crew uniform, that they allow those crew members (youth and adults) who are involved with other scouting activities (OA, council events, national events) to wear it. Wearing the green/gray Venturing uniform at such events is a great way of keeping Venturing 'alive' for others in scouting, and has a greater impact than wearing crew t-shirts/polo shirts.

Can I (or our Crew) choose to wear other color pants with the green shirt?

No. It specifically states that charcoal gray shorts or pants are to be worn. These do NOT need to be the ones made by National Supply. There are many sources for charcoal gray shorts/pants, many better than the ones supplied by National. Both Cabela's and Bass Pro Shop have several styles of shorts, pants, and zipoffs in charcoal gray at reasonable prices.

That said, I doubt that most will get upset if your crew chooses a different color. As some Venturers (and leaders) are Boy Scouts or former Boy Scouts, they probably have the BSA khaki pants and want to keep wearing them. Not proper, but so what? I would not recommend going out and purchasing new BSA khaki pants to wear, however.

[TatterDel]

[QUOTE=Coemgen;497801]First of all, from your friendly local Poor, Starving Liberal Arts Student!

I've been involved in scouting for 7 years, and I just recently became an Eagle Scout; so, I have some experience!

I am also looking to join a venturing crew, and perhaps I could get them kilted (wishful thinking, I know, but still)."


Yes, but what do think about us becoming a kilted crew? What style... cargo/ utility style for hiking and the traditional (economy version) for dressy occasions? I just saw a really nice gray on gray plaid at USA Kilts that would work with the Venturing Green shirt. We can make it optional.
Some of the girls want the utility style kilt too. Utilikilt calls this 'cross-dressing.'

[Kiltman]

Don't have an answer for your question, but welcome from Eastern Washington State.

[TatterDel]

Yes, I realize I jumped the gun and should have only posted my hello here. Perhaps there is a way to move this whole thread to a more appropriate thread area... Many thanks for greetings and the comments though.

[Coemgen]

Yes, but what do think about us becoming a kilted crew? What style... cargo/ utility style for hiking and the traditional (economy version) for dressy occasions? I just saw a really nice gray on gray plaid at USA Kilts that would work with the Venturing Green shirt. We can make it optional.
Some of the girls want the utility style kilt too. Utilikilt calls this 'cross-dressing.'

There are some who would say that it is cross dressing. I, however, am not one of them.

Personally, I'd go with a Utilikilt for outings, and a MacLaren tartan kilt for meetings and formal occasions. Stillwater Kilts carries them, if I remember correctly.

However, if the Utilikilts are too expensive, Sport Kilts has great kilts for outdoors work (like the hiking kilt and the boulder kilt), and they come with pockets. They also make women's versions.

[James MacMillan]

Tradition is a fine thing. It adds unity to things that otherwise would not have any. That is one of the reasons that the Scouting program encourages the wearing of uniforms.

The MacLaren tartan has a fine tradition in Scouting history. If I were you, I educate your charges in it's history and I would also encourage the use of that tartan.

from Sunny Southern California.

[Amoskeag]

I suggest you speak to your unit commissioner and/or your district exec. I usually use them as my sources (unless they disagree with me) I'm a Scoutmaster and I wear McLaren as a "de facto" tartan as I choose not to be Wood Badge. A friend in MD just ordered two UKs to wear at camp. He spoke to the camp director about it and he had no problem other than youth protection rules prevented "regimentalism".

Tradition is a fine thing. It adds unity to things that otherwise would not have any. That is one of the reasons that the Scouting program encourages the wearing of uniforms.

The MacLaren tartan has a fine tradition in Scouting history. If I were you, I educate your charges in it's history and I would also encourage the use of that tartan.

Here! Here!
Jay is absolutely right on this one. A former Scoutmaster, in his "infinite wisdom" let the boys choose their own uniform code or in this case lack thereof. To this day he can't figure out why he had so many problems with the boys. I'm still having a hard time getting the boys to wear green p*nts. Sorry for the digression, I'm done now
I used SWK Thrifties simply for the economy and ease of care. Now I'm actually considering a UK(or of that ilk), which is almost heresy to an old stick in the mud like me.
Either way we gotta see Crew pictures!
Bob

[Standard]

Tradition is a fine thing. It adds unity to things that otherwise would not have any. That is one of the reasons that the Scouting program encourages the wearing of uniforms.

The MacLaren tartan has a fine tradition in Scouting history. If I were you, I educate your charges in it's history and I would also encourage the use of that tartan.

from Sunny Southern California.

I would admonish you to teach your crew that the kilt, if you adopt it as such, is their uniform and not to be taken lightly, or treated as a costume. The kilt as a uniform piece in the US would of course be out of the norm, and as such open to ridicule from others, although this should not be the case, we all know how history treats that which is other than the norm. If, however your entire crew treats the kilt, and the traditions behind it, with the respect due the 'normal' Venturing uniform I would think that attitude would go a long way toward the acceptance of your particular choice.

As for another comment concerning speaking with your District Representative, I would definately do that, if for none other than out of the respect for his (or her) position and to give them a 'heads-up' on your choice. I see nothing in the BSA uniform guidlines which would prevent the wearing of the kilt by all members of your crew, however as a longtime scouter myself I would definately advise letting your higher-ups know about it first before you all show up at a Council event in your kilts.

Hope all works well for you.