unbuttoning bottom button

[OC Richard]

I was looking over a thread on this topic in General Kilt Talk and thought it deserved a thread here, in Traditional Highland Dress, a thread with the topic clearly stated in the name of the thread.

I looked over a large number of old images of people in Highland dress (18th and 19th century) and can find no pattern, no tradition, of leaving the bottom waistcoat/vest button unbuttoned.

For example, in The Highlanders of Scotland, that amazing collection of extremely detailed portraits of men wearing the current Highland dress of the 1860's, the bottom waistcoat button can be clearly seen on 23 men, and every one is buttoned.
Interestingly, one man has the top button of his waistcoat unbuttoned, and two men have several of the upper buttons unbuttoned.
There is one portrait which was left out of the original book, but which has been included in the introduction to the reprint I have, a portrait of John Campbell, which shows the bottom waistcoat button left unbuttoned.

One problem with that button is that in the 19th century it was quite common to wear a waistbelt over the waistcoat and the belt often covered the bottom waistcoat button.

Here's one plate from that book showing the usual buttoned bottom button on one figure, and the common wearing of a waistbelt on another:



In 1800:



and 1860:



and a Highland dress catalogue from 1940:



In going over all my images I did find one showing the bottom button unbuttoned, and here it is:



Is his watch chain passing through that hole? At first I thought so, but on closer examination the chain seems to be simply hanging near that hole.

[JSFMACLJR]

We've already discussed this very topic, but...the tradition of leaving the bottom button undone is of quite recent custom. Obviously older pictures wouldn't show this, as Edward VII hadn't yet eased his waistcoat to accomodate his girth!

[Mael Coluim]

Interesting investigation. Back in my three piece suit days, I left the bottom button unbutton. Now, a vest with my kilt I do want works best with the vest and sporran.
Yeah, where is that old thread on this topic?

[Jock Scot]

Have a look for "do you, don't you?" in the general kilt talk section posted in, I think, September 09. I wonder who posed the question?

[fluter]

Have a look for "do you, don't you?" in the general kilt talk section posted in, I think, September 09. I wonder who posed the question?

Ah, here we are: those short words are not indexed, so it's hard to search for that title!

Do you, don't you?

[Jock Scot]

Ah, here we are: those short words are not indexed, so it's hard to search for that title!

Do you, don't you?

Perhaps some kind and cleaver person may be able to create a link, but that is beyond my ken. However if you click on my avatar and then on "statistics" and then threads that JS started you will find what you are looking for, towards the top third of the page.

[MacLowlife]

Someone posted in the past month or so, the suggestion that Scots refused to conform to the Royal unbuttoning as an act of rebellion. I believe it was in November.

[macwilkin]

Someone posted in the past month or so, the suggestion that Scots refused to conform to the Royal unbuttoning as an act of rebellion. I believe it was in November.

I think someone's pulling your leg there.

T.

[Joseph McLaren]

I raised a similar question some time ago~

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/w...x.html?t=48868

[Jock Scot]

On advice from my Grand Father, Father, and more than a few taylors and kiltmakers who make highland attire, I keep all buttons fastened on all my waistcoats when wearing the kilt.