Celtic History??

[Burly Brute]

I feel cheated by American schools (bear in mind I have gone to public, private, and charter) because I have never been taught anything much about celtic history. I posted a thing about this on facebook a few months ago, and had one viable response. I noticed even in community colleges/universities its very limited. I live in Arizona and aside from the Irish cultural center and some societies, its seems very limited out here. Why are schools so afraid of a rich and involved history? I am getting a degree in Biblical Studies and learning about the ancient middle eastern nations is pretty interesting, I forget not everyone was living in these areas during that period. Where is it!!!? TELL ME!! WHERE!!? lol

Your thoughts?

-Z

[macwilkin]

I feel cheated by American schools (bear in mind I have gone to public, private, and charter) because I have never been taught anything much about celtic history. I posted a thing about this on facebook a few months ago, and had one viable response. I noticed even in community colleges/universities its very limited. I live in Arizona and aside from the Irish cultural center and some societies, its seems very limited out here. Why are schools so afraid of a rich and involved history? I am getting a degree in Biblical Studies and learning about the ancient middle eastern nations is pretty interesting, I forget not everyone was living in these areas during that period. Where is it!!!? TELL ME!! WHERE!!? lol

Your thoughts?

-Z

Because even American history doesn't get the attention it deserves -- as a per-course history instructor at a local community college, we barely can cover basic American history. A four-year university is more likely to have a course on Irish or Scottish history, but even then, there's no guarantee. My alma mater didn't offer a basic Canadian history course.

Personally, while the ancient Celts are more "romantic", I think more people relate to the Irish & Scottish immigrants and their contribution to the US, Canada, Australia, etc. I've been preaching for sometime now that Scottish organizations shouldn't wait for a "Braveheart" to make all things Scottish "cool"; instead we should be looking for the local contributions of Scottish immigrants to our communities.

For starters -- did you know that an Irish soldier-of-fortune, Hugh Oconor (originally O'Connor) was the first Commander of the Presidio at Tucson? Or that a half-Scot, half-Indian scout named Archie McIntosh helped General Crook bring in Geronimo? Or that Arizona's most famous son, William O. "Buckey" O'Neill, was the son of an Irish immigrant?

My dad is from Prescott, btw, and I spent a good deal of my childhood in North PHX.

T.

[Burly Brute]

Because even American history doesn't get the attention it deserves -- as a per-course history instructor at a local community college, we barely can cover basic American history. A four-year university is more likely to have a course on Irish or Scottish history, but even then, there's no guarantee. My alma mater didn't offer a basic Canadian history course.

Personally, while the ancient Celts are more "romantic", I think more people relate to the Irish & Scottish immigrants and their contribution to the US, Canada, Australia, etc. I've been preaching for sometime now that Scottish organizations shouldn't wait for a "Braveheart" to make all things Scottish "cool"; instead we should be looking for the local contributions of Scottish immigrants to our communities.

For starters -- did you know that an Irish soldier-of-fortune, Hugh Oconor (originally O'Connor) was the first Commander of the Presidio at Tucson? Or that a half-Scot, half-Indian scout named Archie McIntosh helped General Crook bring in Geronimo? Or that Arizona's most famous son, William O. "Buckey" O'Neill, was the son of an Irish immigrant?

My dad is from Prescott, btw, and I spent a good deal of my childhood in North PHX.

T.

This is my point! Granted, in my youth I may not have meditated on these realities as much as I would like to now, but the more involved I get in the history the more I see how much the roots really spread out and span the globe. Personally, music is what really shows me connection. When I listen to aussie folk, irish folk, and bluegrass, to me it seems there are huge connection.

Don't get me started on celtic immigrants to America! What a completely neglected part of history that has become! Not to mention the hardships and assimilating that was involved that hardly anyone considers! I think next to slavery and our treatment of native americans, as a society, the celtic immigrants rank pretty high as a group of neglected and mistreated peoples.

I dont want this to be a "bash" anything thread, but it's a serious issue! I hope what I said made sense, I really dig what you offered especially in regards to American connections of today. Why do we negate such a rich history? I think American's have a serious identity crisis afoot, although thats a whole other discussion! lol

[macwilkin]

This is my point! Granted, in my youth I may not have meditated on these realities as much as I would like to now, but the more involved I get in the history the more I see how much the roots really spread out and span the globe. Personally, music is what really shows me connection. When I listen to aussie folk, irish folk, and bluegrass, to me it seems there are huge connection.

Don't get me started on celtic immigrants to America! What a completely neglected part of history that has become! Not to mention the hardships and assimilating that was involved that hardly anyone considers! I think next to slavery and our treatment of native americans, as a society, the celtic immigrants rank pretty high as a group of neglected and mistreated peoples.

I dont want this to be a "bash" anything thread, but it's a serious issue! I hope what I said made sense, I really dig what you offered especially in regards to American connections of today. Why do we negate such a rich history? I think American's have a serious identity crisis afoot, although thats a whole other discussion! lol

Point well taken, but I don't think you're seeing my point: when you get behind the podium and deal with the bureaucracy that is the modern American educational system, you'll see that history in general gets the short end of the stick. I try to work in the contributions of a number of groups to American history when I teach, but I have to teach the big picture as well.

T.

[Burly Brute]

Point well taken, but I don't think you're seeing my point: when you get behind the podium and deal with the bureaucracy that is the modern American educational system, you'll see that history in general gets the short end of the stick. I try to work in the contributions of a number of groups to American history when I teach, but I have to teach the big picture as well.

T.

I see what your saying better now, it's too bad administrations don't see things more that way. I think history is the foundation, or should be, of all acadamia. All paths study are moot if void of history. I am almost done with a course in English Literature and have come to realize what a worth of knowledge was invested in these works and how we should use history as a tool to teach, not relegate it to a few hours a week. I guess any education system has its ills, but come! Come on! haha.

I have a lot of rants and very little sensible answer lol that is my problem. Either way, celtic history is awesome! I recently picked up a book on Ireland's historical cultures and customs and am enjoying it thoroughly, my only trouble is making connections of these ancient towns, etc, which I can't even pronounce...another reason I like learning this stuff in a classroom setting.

[Burly Brute]

Because even American history doesn't get the attention it deserves -- as a per-course history instructor at a local community college, we barely can cover basic American history. A four-year university is more likely to have a course on Irish or Scottish history, but even then, there's no guarantee. My alma mater didn't offer a basic Canadian history course.

Personally, while the ancient Celts are more "romantic", I think more people relate to the Irish & Scottish immigrants and their contribution to the US, Canada, Australia, etc. I've been preaching for sometime now that Scottish organizations shouldn't wait for a "Braveheart" to make all things Scottish "cool"; instead we should be looking for the local contributions of Scottish immigrants to our communities.

For starters -- did you know that an Irish soldier-of-fortune, Hugh Oconor (originally O'Connor) was the first Commander of the Presidio at Tucson? Or that a half-Scot, half-Indian scout named Archie McIntosh helped General Crook bring in Geronimo? Or that Arizona's most famous son, William O. "Buckey" O'Neill, was the son of an Irish immigrant?

My dad is from Prescott, btw, and I spent a good deal of my childhood in North PHX.

T.

Also, I am from Tucson and thanks for that little golden nugget of history! Didn't know that!

[Slowburn]

[did you know that an Irish soldier-of-fortune, Hugh Oconor (originally O'Connor) was the first Commander of the Presidio at Tucson?.[/QUOTE]

I thought the Oconor surname had its origin in the "O'conor don" line of family names of Irish nobility and was in no way related to Oconnor.

[macwilkin]

[did you know that an Irish soldier-of-fortune, Hugh Oconor (originally O'Connor) was the first Commander of the Presidio at Tucson?.

I thought the Oconor surname had its origin in the "O'conor don" line of family names of Irish nobility and was in no way related to Oconnor.[/QUOTE]

If you have a source, I'd love to see it. I'm only going by what the official state historian of Arizona, Marshall Trimble, has published in several of his histories of the state.

Regardless of the spelling, Irish soldiers-of-forturne were quite common in the service of the Spanish Empire.

T.

[Slowburn]

Because even American history doesn't get the attention it deserves -- as a per-course history instructor at a local community college, we barely can cover basic American history. A four-year university is more likely to have a course on Irish or Scottish history, but even then, there's no guarantee. My alma mater didn't offer a basic Canadian history course.

Personally, while the ancient Celts are more "romantic", I think more people relate to the Irish & Scottish immigrants and their contribution to the US, Canada, Australia, etc. I've been preaching for sometime now that Scottish organizations shouldn't wait for a "Braveheart" to make all things Scottish "cool"; instead we should be looking for the local contributions of Scottish immigrants to our communities.

For starters -- did you know that an Irish soldier-of-fortune, Hugh Oconor (originally O'Connor) was the first Commander of the Presidio at Tucson? Or that a half-Scot, half-Indian scout named Archie McIntosh helped General Crook bring in Geronimo? Or that Arizona's most famous son, William O. "Buckey" O'Neill, was the son of an Irish immigrant?

My dad is from Prescott, btw, and I spent a good deal of my childhood in North PHX.

T.

I might be wrong in saying this but, I think the "don" part of the name refers only to the chief but just the same. I aknowledge the point you were making. I am vaiguly familiar with The O'conor name as it is in my direct family lineage and my great grand mother was adamant that she was not an O'connor.

[macwilkin]

I might be wrong in saying this but, I think the "don" part of the name refers only to the chief but just the same. I aknowledge the point you were making. I am vaiguly familiar with The O'conor name as it is in my direct family lineage and my great grand mother was adamant that she was not an O'connor.

Perhaps our Rathdown will weigh in, given his immense knowledge of Irish nobility...

T.