Is clan affiliation primarily along paternal lines?

[unixken]

I was taking stock of the kilts and tartans I currently own, along with one that is presently on order, and those that I plan to purchase as funds permit. I began wondering how history and tradition prioritize or define an "order of precedence" (if any) when affiliations with multiple tartans exist.

On my father's side of the family, I have the following affiliations:

Grandfather
`--- Great Grandfather = Buchanan
`--- Great Grandmother = Aberdeen District

Grandmother
`--- Great Grandfather = Ellis (of Wales)
`--- Great Grandmother = Lyons

I understand that any "Ellis of Wales" tartans are fashion industry creations with no historical significance. But among the other tartans, I am curious. Do history and tradition dictate that any one affiliation will normally displace any others? Is there some kind of "affiliation falls along paternal lines" rule? Or is it simply a matter of choice as to where tradition allows allegiances and ties to be prioritized?

I understand the contemporary and prevailing "wear whatever you want" opinions on here. But from a historical context, I'd be interested to hear what say The Rabble. Another opportunity for me to learn something about my heritage.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Ken,

This is a good question, and one that seems to perplex a fair number of people who have been raised outside of Scotland.

Basically a clan tartan is tied to having a clan or clan-sept surname. That being the case, if one's father's surname is not associated with a clan, then one adopts the tartan of the clan to which they are most closely related (i.e. that of their Mother or some other relative from whom they are descended) which, based on the information you've supplied, would seem to be Buchanan.

Generally it is assumed that the wife "enters" her husbands clan upon marriage. However if the husband has no clan, then he is accepted as a member of the wife's clan, as are any children of that marriage. Here's an example:

Mr Zoot marries Miss McTavish. He is, by marriage a McTavish, as are all of the children of the Zoot-McTavish union, and their grand children, etc. Now suppose their grand daughter, Miss Fiona Zoot, marries Mr. Pepe Gomez. Their son, Angus Gomez, would still be a McTavish through his Mother, as would Angus's grand daughter, Keesha Wu (daughter of Fleur Gomez and her husband, Orlando Wu). But if Keesha Wu married Iain Campbell, their children would be Campbells, with no traditional claim to the McTavish tartan.

I hope that explains how the "order of precedence" works...

Regards,
Scott
MoR

[Meggers]

Mr Zoot marries Miss McTavish. He is, by marriage a McTavish, as are all of the children of the Zoot-McTavish union, and their grand children, etc. Now suppose their grand daughter, Miss Fiona Zoot, marries Mr. Pepe Gomez. Their son, Angus Gomez, would still be a McTavish through his Mother, as would Angus's grand daughter, Keesha Wu (daughter of Fleur Gomez and her husband, Orlando Wu). But if Keesha Wu married Iain Campbell, their children would be Campbells, with no traditional claim to the McTavish tartan.

lol. That took a lot of thinking.

I actually didnt realize that clans were affiliated by surname. Is is possible to be born into a family with a Scottish surname but not belong to the broader clan? Or is it automatic?

[EagleJCS]

Meggers, it is certainly possible to have a Scottish surname without automatically being a member of the clan (I'm proof). I have not yet been able to trace my paternal line (Scott) back far enough to determine where the family came from prior to appearing in the tax records of early Kentucky (1792/93). I have been told by members of the Clan Scott Society (Clan Scott is a Borders clan or family) that there are three distinct lineages of Scott's from the British Isles, only one of which is Scottish (the other two being English and Irish).

That said, I and my sister have still been welcomed into the Clan Scott Society (though I guess anyone willing to pay dues would also be equally welcome ). I have also been told that being Scott's by birth, we would also likely be welcomed by the Chief into the 'Clan proper' if we should choose to ask him (though there's really not a formal 'clan' outside the Society anymore) even though we don't have the lineage proving we're actually Scottish Scott's.

[Meggers]

Meggers, it is certainly possible to have a Scottish surname without automatically being a member of the clan (I'm proof). I have not yet been able to trace my paternal line (Scott) back far enough to determine where the family came from prior to appearing in the tax records of early Kentucky (1792/93). I have been told by members of the Clan Scott Society (Clan Scott is a Borders clan or family) that there are three distinct lineages of Scott's from the British Isles, only one of which is Scottish (the other two being English and Irish).

That said, I and my sister have still been welcomed into the Clan Scott Society (though I guess anyone willing to pay dues would also be equally welcome ). I have also been told that being Scott's by birth, we would also likely be welcomed by the Chief into the 'Clan proper' if we should choose to ask him (though there's really not a formal 'clan' outside the Society anymore) even though we don't have the lineage proving we're actually Scottish Scott's.

I see. Thats a great example.

In my case, I am a Walker which was a common alias name for MacGregors. I know being a Walker does not mean I am a MacGregor unless I can find a MacGregor in my tree somewhere. However, Walker is both a Scottish and an English last name and my Walkers are Scottish, not English. My great-great grandfather, James Walker, was from Scotland. I have been searchnig long and hard to trace him further back and to absolutely no avail. He seems to have just disappeared from history and all I have is his name on a death certificate.

Walker is an anglicized occupational last name used in England and in the Grampian region of Scotland. It also stems from the Gaelic term "Mac an fhucadair" or "son of a fuller" since a fuller was someone who trampled newly woven fabric in water to thicken it (hense where Walker comes from) and then the name eventually evolved into the name MacNucator. So...theres a lot of places where my last name has a big fat question mark next to it. Obviously Walker is an English word since its an occupation. Same as Smith, Shepherd, etc. But since my Walkers were not English, this tells me that our last name, up the family tree, was something else since it was obviously changed at one point to the English version. Most MacNucators now say that Walkers were once MacNucators.

OF COURSE, however, I am back to square one in terms of clan affiliation since neither Walker nor MacNucator have clans. haha. My only hope for a clan is to see if we were ever MacGregors.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I see. Thats a great example.

In my case, I am a Walker which was a common alias name for MacGregors. I know being a Walker does not mean I am a MacGregor unless I can find a MacGregor in my tree somewhere. However, Walker is both a Scottish and an English last name and my Walkers are Scottish, not English. My great-great grandfather, James Walker, was from Scotland. I have been searchnig long and hard to trace him further back and to absolutely no avail. He seems to have just disappeared from history and all I have is his name on a death certificate.

Walker is an anglicized occupational last name used in England and in the Grampian region of Scotland. It also stems from the Gaelic term "Mac an fhucadair" or "son of a fuller" since a fuller was someone who trampled newly woven fabric in water to thicken it (hense where Walker comes from) and then the name eventually evolved into the name MacNucator. So...theres a lot of places where my last name has a big fat question mark next to it. Obviously Walker is an English word since its an occupation. Same as Smith, Shepherd, etc. But since my Walkers were not English, this tells me that our last name, up the family tree, was something else since it was obviously changed at one point to the English version. Most MacNucators now say that Walkers were once MacNucators.

OF COURSE, however, I am back to square one in terms of clan affiliation since neither Walker nor MacNucator have clans. haha. My only hope for a clan is to see if we were ever MacGregors.

Walker is also a recognized sept of Clan MacMillan. Somerled MacMillan gives a very full account of this sept in his book, "The MacMillans and Their Septs", published in 1952. PM me you address and I'll send you a copy of the relevant pages.
MoR

[unixken]

lol. That took a lot of thinking.

I actually didnt realize that clans were affiliated by surname. Is is possible to be born into a family with a Scottish surname but not belong to the broader clan? Or is it automatic?

Meghan - I agree. My brain cells started smoldering with Angus Gomez, while Keesha Wu caused actual combustion. LOL ;)

Clans are generally tied to surnames, but not every surname independently has it's own clan or tartan. For example, my surname is Cormack, which is one of nearly a hundred "septs" of the Buchanan clan. A sept is a family that in the past had sworn allegiance to a particular clan. Other surnames (for example, my great grandmother's surname of Sangster), are independent of any clans, but have a geographic affiliation (Aberdeen District).

And as Eagle has pointed out, it is entirely possible that a given surname may be part of more than one clan (depending upon where the family branch came from), or no clan at all. To the former, for example, the Morrisons from Perthsire are a sept of the Clan Buchanan. All other Morrisons are of the Clan Morrison.

[davedove]

It most certainly is possible. It would be very easy to be born a McDonald and yet have no connection to the McDonald clan. McDonald really just means "son of Donald", so the first McDonald in the family, let's call him Angus McDonald, was really Angus son of Donald. Then surnames become common and all of Angus's kids now carry the surname of McDonald. Here's the kicker though, Donald could have been from any clan, not necessarily the McDonalds. So, you could have Angus McDonald of the Campbell clan, for example.

[unixken]

Dave T and Dave D - you both make great points.

[ThistleDown]

It most certainly is possible. It would be very easy to be born a McDonald and yet have no connection to the McDonald clan. McDonald really just means "son of Donald", so the first McDonald in the family, let's call him Angus McDonald, was really Angus son of Donald. Then surnames become common and all of Angus's kids now carry the surname of McDonald. Here's the kicker though, Donald could have been from any clan, not necessarily the McDonalds. So, you could have Angus McDonald of the Campbell clan, for example.

Another example in support of this is the name Davidson, simply the 'son of David'. There was a relatively small offshoot of the old Clanchattan that adopted the name and descendants can still be found from Badenoch to Nairn. But there were far greater numbers of Davidsons in Ayrshire, Aberdeenshire and Roxboroughshire and these had no connection whatsoever with that little Highland clan that Anglicised its name. Today, however, all with the surname look to Davidson of Davidston as chief and all have adopted the tartan that didn't begin with the chief's ancestors in any case.