Wool vs Polyviscose...am I being a snob?

[gwynng]

I started many years ago with a Utilikilt...I think of it as the "gateway drug" of the kilt world...loved it - still do. Got great reaction, loved wearing it, so decided to go whole hog and got a 13 oz. 8 yd. traditional kilt. Don't wear the Utilikilt so much any more, so am wanting to expand the wardrobe a little. The traditional is still in great shape, but needs a slight alteration to fit a little better.

Can I get some experienced advice about wool VS polyviscose? I see that PV is really much more affordable as I look on various sites (yes, Ebay too, but £50 for a PV...really? That cheap?). I guess that my question is, am I being a total snob about wool kilts? A lot of you guys are liking the PV and looking good in the pics. Is it worth the cost (even as minimal as it is) to try one of the less expensive PVs from a place like Buyakilt.com or better to search on line for a good ex-hire in wool or just start saving for another wool traditional? I live in SoCal, so a heavy weight for warmth is not really an issue. Looking good is!

Advice is much appreciated. (If you happen to have a 36"x24" -ish you don't wear anymore hanging around the closet, go ahead and PM me. Who knows it might be the what I have been looking for!)

cheers,
Gwynn

[Steve Ashton]

Please be very careful when you see the term P/V being used on the web.

P/V is short for Polyester/Viscose (Viscose is the British term for Rayon). so to be actually P/V the fabric must be a blend of Polyester and Rayon.

The fabric that everyone here raves about is woven by only one mill and that is Marton Mills.

Not all fabrics that are listed as P/V are actually a Polyester/Rayon blend. PV has become a sort of buzz word for any synthetic. If you are seeing a kilt in the 40-80 pound range you are probably not seeing a P/V kilt but actually one made from Acrylic.

If you see "Heavy weight P/V" listed you are most definitely not seeing a kilt made from true P/V as the fabric is woven in only one weight of 12oz. per fabric yard.

[Chas]

Hello Gwynn,

If I may use an example. The vehicle a man wants when he is 18-21 and chasing the girls, is not the same vehicle that he needs 10 years later to cope with an ever increasing family.

The same applies to clothing and in particular the kilt. If a man's lifestyle is such that he spends many evenings a week down his local 'rowdy' pub, he could do it in a 16oz hand-stitched woollen kilt. It will certainly stand up to it, but will require more TLC on a regular basis. A P/V kilt on the other hand will shrug off the beer stains and holds it's creases without much effort. Will the P/V look as good as the woollen kilt - almost, but not quite.

It will be up to you, to decide what you want to use it for and choose the correct material.

Oh, and why not pop over to the Newbie board and introduce yourself.

Regards

Chas

[Spartan Tartan]

I love my wool kilts. Even in 110 degree F Oklahoma summer. I wondered the same about PV (Note Steve's caution above) and got a great deal on a PV so jumped at it. Now, I prefer to feel.a little weight from the kilt and PV is too light for my liking. So, I have a PV kilt hanging in my closet that never gets worn. (Sadly not your size). I will wear it for an upcoming Warrrior Dash and otherwise keep it handy in case a friend of mine desires to borrow a kilt.

I don't think you are being a snob if you prefer wool. We all have prefrences.

[Mael Coluim]

I love USA Kilts semi trads which are PV from Marton Mills. In fact I have on right now. I am a frequent kilt wearer. In our warm summers in Virginny, that’s pretty much what I wear. They dress up great for Burns Night and dress down easy enough for pubbing. If I lived in southern California that’s probably all I would wear.

I would not waste my money on other kilt sellers offering deals on PV’s Kilts. Buy from who you can trust who makes quality kilts with quality material. USAK fits that bill.

If you really want wool go for it! Then I would look for a 4 yard box pleat as made by Matt Newsome or a five or six yarder made by several advertisers here. I would definitely not get a traditional 8 yard kilt. Just my opinion

[Tobus]

Nothing snobbish about preferring wool. To me, it's like preferring leather shoes over those horrid fake-leather ones. If you're going to spend the money on something you want to wear and look nice in, it's worth it to get the "real thing", not an imitation.

My first kilt was PV. But once I got a real wool kilt, I couldn't go back to wearing PV. It was just too light and didn't feel the same. PV isn't a "cooler" fabric, despite many claims to the contrary. Wool is actually very breathable. The main factor in a kilt's heat-trapping properties is the amount of material used. I wear wool kilts all year round, even in the South Texas summer heat.

The only advantage I can see to buying PV is the lower cost. But if you have the budget for wool, my personal opinion is that you'll be better off going that way.

[mookien]

Please be very careful when you see the term P/V being used on the web.
...

Not all fabrics that are listed as P/V are actually a Polyester/Rayon blend. PV has become a sort of buzz word for any synthetic. If you are seeing a kilt in the 40-80 pound range you are probably not seeing a P/V kilt but actually one made from Acrylic.

If you see "Heavy weight P/V" listed you are most definitely not seeing a kilt made from true P/V as the fabric is woven in only one weight of 12oz. per fabric yard.

Steve: Thanks for the clarification. You ought to make that post a sticky for the benefit of future buyers.

John

[auld argonian]

I've seen stuff listed as being PV and just KNOW that it can't be because the price is just too low...that's sort of a warning sign, too. It's nice material and you may get a break but if the price is ridiculously low BEWARE!

Best

AA

[O'Callaghan]

Please be very careful when you see the term P/V being used on the web.

P/V is short for Polyester/Viscose (Viscose is the British term for Rayon). so to be actually P/V the fabric must be a blend of Polyester and Rayon.

The fabric that everyone here raves about is woven by only one mill and that is Marton Mills.

Not all fabrics that are listed as P/V are actually a Polyester/Rayon blend. PV has become a sort of buzz word for any synthetic. If you are seeing a kilt in the 40-80 pound range you are probably not seeing a P/V kilt but actually one made from Acrylic.

If you see "Heavy weight P/V" listed you are most definitely not seeing a kilt made from true P/V as the fabric is woven in only one weight of 12oz. per fabric yard.

Viscose is not the British term for Rayon. Rayon is a trademark, and viscose is a generic term. Rayon is one particular viscose fabric made by one particular manufacturer that owns the trademark. Anyone can make viscose, but they can't call it Rayon. Nor is theirs necessary equal quality to Rayon.

Trust me, I'm a patent agent (in the US) and I'm also a Brit.

As to whether MM are the only makers of PV, I sincerely doubt it. Are other PV fabrics the same as theirs? Probably not. For one thing, the other half of the name is polyester, and polyesters are a whole class of substances, not just one particular one. Ask any chemist. Different PV fabrics use different polyesters mixed with viscose in different proportions, and you will see kilts in other polyester blends besides PV, such as polycotton.

Most of the cheapest kilts are acryllic, but there is no particular similarity between acryllic and PV. Polyester based fabrics are fairly smooth, whereas acryllic tends to be fuzzy. Anyone who has seen both PV and acryllic is not likely to confuse them, and I doubt if many people would try to sell one as the other, or they would not stay in business very long.

ETA: Acryllic tends not to be suitable for hot weather, unlike PV, which I believe was one of the OP's concerns.

[The Wizard of BC]

While you are correct sir with your clarification of the trademarked name Rayon, most in the US know that particular fiber only under that brand name. Just like we prefer to use Q-tip instead of cotton swab or Kleenex instead of facial tissue. Many of our members from the US have never heard the term Viscose until they came here.

I disagree with only one statement in your post.

"Anyone who has seen both P/V and acryllic is not likely to confuse them, and I doubt if many people would try to sell one as the other, or they would not stay in business very long."

This is the problem most of our members have about the use of the term P/V. The fact is that very few have had the opportunity to compare both a P/V and Acrylic kilt side by side. I have, but only because I run a kilt shop.

I see advertisements on a daily basis from companies that state their kilts are made from "P/V" and "heavy-weight P/V". I know for a fact that they are not a Polyester/Viscose blend because I have held them in my hands. I have done burn tests on them to confirm.

Acrylic kilts are advertised and sold everyday listed as P/V. On an almost weekly basis a new member posts about their new P/V kilt because that is what it was advertised as.

And it is because the term P/V is used by some companies to mean almost any synthetic fiber that we must state and re-state this proper definition over and over. Those companies are still out there and are still selling their product to those who do not know the difference.

It is because successful companies like USA Kilts, Freedom Kilts, Canadian Casual Kilts and others, who use true P/V, that these other companies began to use the term.



While I agree there are many different compositions and blends of Polyester and Viscose I stand by my statement that today there is only one kilt quality P/V weaving mill. That mill is Marton Mills and the only weight they weave is 375 Grams per Linear Meter or 12 oz. per fabric yard.

I know exactly how much Marton Mills sells their fabric for. I buy a lot of it. And I can state for a fact that if you buy an 8 yard kilt for under $90.00 US dollars you are not buying one made from Marton Mills P/V.