Single-sized (non adjustable) bow ties

[McCracken140]

Hello all,
I’m attending an evening function in the coming weeks, and I was thinking I might get a standing collar for my collarless evening shirt and pair it with a black bow tie to wear with my kilt and black shell jacket (with the jacket’s standing collar turned down).
To this end I would require one of the nicer bow ties that come in neck single neck sizes (eg 15.5) rather than have the adjusters at the back, because they would be exposed with a standing or winged collar. From what I have seen, these are only available from British ‘high street’ retailers. Is anyone aware of a place where such a thing could be had at a reasonable price, and particularly in Canada or the US?

[Steve Ashton]

What this is called is a "self-tie" bow tie. They are rare but not unknown by any means. I buy mine at a my local tux rental shop. A high end men's shop may also carry them.

Oh, and if you do not know how to tie a bow tie, it is the same knot you use to tie your shoes.

[McCracken140]

What this is called is a "self-tie" bow tie. They are rare but not unknown by any means. I buy mine at a my local tux rental shop. A high end men's shop may also carry them

Ah, thank you- i has thought that the term ‘self tie’ would simply find me ties that still have the adjusters, but you can tie the knot yourself- but somehow searching ‘self tie bow tie size 15.5’ finds me all kinds of results where ‘black silk bow tie size 15.5’ would not. Thanks lol

[Ulan]

I think it's probably worth pointing out that standing collars, or wing-tips as they're called are for white tie events and full collared shirts are the standard for black tie, although this is often confused

[Steve Ashton]

That is not always true. At least it is not a rule written anywhere.

About the only convention is an older one - The wing collar may or may not be separate but is usually starched very stiff and is usually paired with the stiff placket fronted shirt with studs and not buttons.

Although many today are not stiff. I have even seen a soft wing collar on a pleated front shirt but that was in a tux rental place that all the shirts on display had '70's ruffle fronts and colors like teal.

Today both the wing collar and the stand and fall collar are seen quite often for Tuxedo or Black Tie. Ruffle fronts are long gone and pleated fronts are seen less and less often. Even the older convention of tuxedo shirts using studs is not a strict rule anymore.

But there is nothing that screams "Class" like a guy pulling on the ends of a self tie bow and letting the tie hang free. Women just seem to find it un-resistible.

[Jock Scot]

Never heard that before. Wing collar shirts are perfectly normal with Highlandwear. This may be a convention south of the border perhaps.

Fold down collars for formal(black tie) shirts are the norm in this part of Scotland and have been for decades. Wing collar shirts, rightly or wrongly, are considered to be hire company issue.

[Jock Scot]

That's interesting. In any case the only dress shirts I own are all wing collar ones, apart from the collarless ones I wear with a jabot. Any black tie function I have been at the majority if not all of those kilted with PCs will have wing collar shirts although if there are any in dinner suits they tend to wear fold down collars. It may be an anglo-saxon thing perhaps.

One could hardly describe the North West Highlands as an Anglo Saxon Stronghold. Without splitting hairs and without being too contentious I hope, we up here regard the wing collar as more of a Lowland Scot thing that we generally regard as being fairly new------since the 1970's perhaps---- to the more general use of kilts(in civilian form) and particularly for formal events. Its is fair to say that the hire companies have gasped this trend with both hands and have (still do) pursued the wing collar look almost exclusively for black tie events and the use of those dreadful ruche ties for day attire.

Up to about that time in my experience, those in the Lowlands that wore tartan at all, it was in trews form and yes, I think the more Southern influence of wearing fold down collars, with black tie and Dinner jackets(tux) with the trews was very much the new trend. I have to say, it is a look that still appeals to my eye.

[KiltedSergeant]

Oh, and if you do not know how to tie a bow tie, it is the same knot you use to tie your shoes.

Wow! I never knew that Thanks! Now I can buy one. (Even in this modern age of Velcro, I know how to tie my shoes. )

[kingandrew]

Yes, the bow tie is just like tying your shoes, just around your neck.

I personally like bow ties not only because they add a certain panache to your look, but because they are simpler to deal with. I can tie one without looking in a mirror and I never have to worry about whether it is the right length. I can feel with my fingers when I tie it if it is lopsided and correct that without untying and starting over. And taking it off at the end of the day just requires pulling on one end. Plus, it never falls in my soup or gets caught in any doors or machinery.

As far as 1920s fashions go, I think the wing collar would be much more typical of formal wear at that time. In fact, wing collar shirts were still pretty common with business/lounge suits in the 20s. Buster Keaton, playing a sort of "everyman" character, typically wears a sort of wing collar with a fake tie arrangement in his silent films from that decade.

Andrew

[McCracken140]

The 'black tie' dress code was really only coming into common use in the 1920s, replacing 'white tie'. As such, in that period, there was less distinction between what could and couldn't be worn as far as what is exclusive to white tie and black tie. For example, stiff evening shirts, although fairly uncommon today, were standard for black tie in those days, and white waistcoats were not uncommon for black tie. Indeed, there is a photo out ther of Hitler in the '30's wearing a black waistcoat in white tie. It was not until much later that turndown collars became "standard" black tie in the UK, but in North America wing collars are still relatively common. I believe it might have something to do with the fact that a tuxedo is the most formal attire the average American has ever hear of, so he is likely to ascribe to it more unique features, such as the wing collar. However, wing collars attached to the shirt rarely if ever have the required height or stiffness to be considered 'elegant evening dress', and since most, unlike myself, would rather not bother with detachable collars, we see that most 'elegant' wearers of black tie resort to turndown collars.