Deciding how to pleat a kilt

[jsrnephdoc]

Despite the wise advice from some Scots that people who "kilt" don't need more than one, I'm still triggered enough by love of variety to have hopes of acquiring one or two more, and problems that have come from intentional weight loss may add to that total (a replacement for one that simply falls off my body).When I began kilting, I knew NOTHING about sett sizes, tartan symmetry, or pleating styles, and I still have much to learn. However, one very recent discovery is that the very kilt that needs to be replaced because of my weight loss (Robertson Ancient Hunting in Lochcarron 13 oz fabric) has a 23 inch sett size. While I've found a kilt maker (J Higgins) who says they can reduce it the almost 9 inches doing so requires at the high "kilt waist" I'm pretty certain that doing so would create enormous problems attempting to center the tartan's pivot points both "fore and aft" (on the outer apron and in the pleats).That got me to wondering whether, when considering HOW to pleat a kilt, one might lean towards pleating to the stripe for tartans with such large sett sizes.Does that make sense?

(I'm also wondering how the alterer would deal with the scalloping of the pleats above the fell, which I think would need to be different with such extensive changes).

And, as for the "one is enough" position, I'll offer this: Albert Einstein had seven identical saxon suits. That way he was certain he wouldn't be caught smelly or unkempt, but could dress each morning without having to waste any time CHOOSING his attire. There are, of course, more contemporary examples; e.g., Steve Jobs in his black turtleneck and denim pants (but some would argue that simply represents a general decay in sartorial elegance).

[Jock Scot]

I can't say that I give any real thought about how my kilt is pleated, it is in fact pleated to the sett. As I can't see it when I am wearing it, I really couldn't care less. I think most bespoke kilt makers in Scotland usually pleat to the sett for civilian kilts, unless the customer requires something else.

[SF Jeff]

While I've found a kilt maker (J Higgins) who says they can reduce it the almost 9 inches doing so requires at the high "kilt waist" I'm pretty certain that doing so would create enormous problems attempting to center the tartan's pivot points both "fore and aft" (on the outer apron and in the pleats).

What does Higgins have to say about this?

(I'm also wondering how the alterer would deal with the scalloping of the pleats above the fell, which I think would need to be different with such extensive changes).

And this?

And, as for the "one is enough" position, I'll offer this: Albert Einstein had seven identical saxon suits. That way he was certain he wouldn't be caught smelly or unkempt, but could dress each morning without having to waste any time CHOOSING his attire. There are, of course, more contemporary examples; e.g., Steve Jobs in his black turtleneck and denim pants (but some would argue that simply represents a general decay in sartorial elegance).

Logical error here... Einstein wore a suit every day. If you wear a kilt every day (and maybe you do?) and want it "identical" like Einstein so you don't have to fuss with getting dressed each morning, then yes, having several kilts of the same tartan would make sense.

It's also been said that Einstein couldn't tie his shoes and mis-matched his socks, so his wife dressed him. Probably an urban myth, but if true, then maybe she made the call for identical suits, just to make her life easier.

No need to justify your kilt preferences here. We're all on the same side (more or less). I have three and I doubt I'll buy another. If someone thinks that's two too many, so be it.

[figheadair]

(Robertson Ancient Hunting in Lochcarron 13 oz fabric) has a 23 inch sett size.

I very much doubt that. No stock tartan is woven with a sett size that large because it is impractical for a lot of uses. By the same logic, the MacKenzie (same tartan but for the red and white stripes in the opposite places) would be equally large, but it's not. And, heavy-weight would have a sett size well over 25".

[jsrnephdoc]

I very much doubt that. No stock tartan is woven with a sett size that large because it is impractical for a lot of uses. By the same logic, the MacKenzie (same tartan but for the red and white stripes in the opposite places) would be equally large, but it's not. And, heavy-weight would have a sett size well over 25".

Oops! You're correct The pivot point is the intersection of two narrow white stripes. Visibly, on the finished garment, horizontally, they are 21" (sorry, not 23" as I claimed originally) apart, but the REASON for that is that measuring from the stripe closest to the front apron fringe to the next VISIBLE white stripe takes me all the way to the under apron. The intervening white stripe (in the pleats) is buried BY the pleating. So, now I wonder, is this likely an "oops" on the part of the kilt maker, or is it just an unfortunate consequence of the already large size (actually about 12") of the sett. I hadn't noticed previously that at the transition from outer apron TO pleats, the vertical RED stripe repeated MUCH more quickly than visible elsewhere. Sure enough, when I peeked at the underside of the pleats, I discovered the "missing" vertical white stripe. And the fact that there's only one HORIZONTAL white stripe derives from the fact that I am "vertically challenged.


But, that raises the issue again as to whether tartans with large sett sizes generally are preferably pleated to the stripe.


I know from your other very erudite posts that you have LOTS of experience on a home loom. I DON'T know if you've sewn kilts, but I'll guess you could also weigh in on the issue of how pleats scalloped for one waist size would be affected by a dramatic reduction of the waist size. I wonder also whether “re-pleating” (actually reducing the NUMBER of pleats) might expose some differential fading in a garment that’s now almost a decade old.


Two additional related questions regarding the pleating: was it necessary to make the initial and final pleats such that the vertical red stripe repeated at 50% of the sett size, or that the pleating needed to HIDE one iteration of the pivot point white stripe?


I’m NOT attempting to chastise USA Kilts by asking this. I’m amazed by how deeply they care about their mission, and I REALLY enjoyed visiting their shop when I traveled to NYC for the 2025 Tartan Day parade.

(And, my message title is culturally appropriate, given it's original non-deranged invocation's author).

[OC Richard]

I very much doubt that. No stock tartan is woven with a sett size that large because it is impractical for a lot of uses. By the same logic, the MacKenzie (same tartan but for the red and white stripes in the opposite places) would be equally large, but it's not. And, heavy-weight would have a sett size well over 25".

I just checked Lochcarron's site, happily they give the repeat, and for the Robertson Hunting Ancient in medium weight they give the repeat as 13 inches.

Of course due to the nature of that tartan it gives the impression of a repeat half that size, 6.5 inches, which is common for medium weight tartans.

13 inches is still a big repeat if you're pleating to the stripe that occurs half as often as some of the other stripes. For example with MacKenzie the white stripe occurs on every green but the red stripe only occurs on every other blue, which is why military kilts in MacKenzie pleat to the white stripe.

So with your Robertson Hunting pleating to the red stripe means, in effect, pleating to a 6.5 inch sett which is commonplace. Pleating to the white stripe wouldn't work; you'd end up like Hunting Stewart with the pleats alternating between two colours of stripes, in your case red and white.

Hunting Stewart is notoriously difficult to pleat because both the red and the yellow stripes only occur in every other repeat of the underlying pattern. Thus the military kilts in Hunting Stewart have the pleats alternate between red and yellow.

But on MacKenzie, Hunting Robertson, and Hunting Stewart there are black stripes which occur more often than the red, white, or yellow over-stripes. That's how I had my Hunting Stewart kilt pleated.

[Pleater]

Having pleated some fabrics which might be considered strange - one is pleated to the goldfish, I do spend time in experimenting to get the best effect and do end up with pleats which are neither to the stripe nor to the set if analysed strictly, but I like to think that they are all at least giving a nod to accepted methods of pleating.

With a large set in a heavy fabric a box pleat might be an option, as might pleats of irregular size to give the illusion of pleating to the set - even if it is not an exact representation something close could well fool the casual observer.

With such a large set there might well be more hit and miss scenarios depending on just where on the set the fabric was cut.
I had two kilts which had to be made differently even though they were the two halves of the same bit of fabric. There was damage on one half just a few inches from the edge but whilst the other half could be used as it was, with the folds falling exactly right removing those few inches threw everything off. I even thought of turning the fabric upside down and retaining the damaged part, mending it and using it as the under apron. In the end I recalculated and made a narrower apron and a couple of cheats.

Having considered that the kilt is already made, and the pleats cut, more than likely - perhaps the kindest thing would be to sell the kilt you have and set your kilt maker the problem just of creating a kilt of the correct size from whole cloth.

Anne the Pleater