Wear of Clan Tartan by non-Clan Members

**Meggers** · 6th August 12, 09:54 PM

^ oh, ok

**MacSpadger** · 9th August 12, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by kiltbook

Black watch tartan is also not a good choice for the Irish because members of the regiment were responsible for atrocities in Ireland.

This is the kind of blanket statement that really, really, really hacks me off. I have spent years in Northern Ireland. I lost two of my cousins, one aged 17, the other 18, in Northern Ireland. I have lost close friends in Northern Ireland, good people that I would love to see walking around today living their lives.
To many of us Northern Ireland is a subject that is very, very close indeed. To post in a forum such as this about "atrocities" is wrong in the first place. Even if it wasn't, to post unsubstantiated allegations would be wrong without any source or reference.
Not to give away too much about myself, but I am currently undergoing counselling regarding real "atrocities" that I witnesssed in Northern Ireland years ago, things that I just can't blot out or forget. Things I can't repeat here, but can't stop thinking about either. I am seeing and hearing and smelling them now. I am 52 and don't really want to be undergoing this kind of stuff, but, hey ho, it's messed me up, there you go. At least I am alive. Think twice or even three times before hitting the post button.
I find the whole "Irish kilt" biz ironic when I have been through an entire 70's, 80's and 90's mind set of being told not to wear the kilt in Ireland or Northern Ireland as it marks you out as Scottish and therefore a target for terrorism. In those days there was a great deal of truth in that. I am deeply grateful that the world has changed for most, ordinary people want peace, and I hope one day the extremists, Republican and Loyalist, will follow suit.
But please don't post uninformed kak like this here. Thanks.

**Chas** · 9th August 12, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by kiltbook
Black watch tartan is also not a good choice for the Irish because members of the regiment were responsible for atrocities in Ireland.

Originally Posted by MacSpadger

This is the kind of blanket statement that really, really, really hacks me off. I have spent years in Northern Ireland. I lost two of my cousins, one aged 17, the other 18, in Northern Ireland. I have lost close friends in Northern Ireland, good people that I would love to see walking around today living their lives.
To many of us Northern Ireland is a subject that is very, very close indeed. To post in a forum such as this about "atrocities" is wrong in the first place. Even if it wasn't, to post unsubstantiated allegations would be wrong without any source or reference.
Not to give away too much about myself, but I am currently undergoing counselling regarding real "atrocities" that I witnesssed in Northern Ireland years ago, things that I just can't blot out or forget. Things I can't repeat here, but can't stop thinking about either. I am seeing and hearing and smelling them now. I am 52 and don't really want to be undergoing this kind of stuff, but, hey ho, it's messed me up, there you go. At least I am alive. Think twice or even three times before hitting the post button.
I find the whole "Irish kilt" biz ironic when I have been through an entire 70's, 80's and 90's mind set of being told not to wear the kilt in Ireland or Northern Ireland as it marks you out as Scottish and therefore a target for terrorism. In those days there was a great deal of truth in that. I am deeply grateful that the world has changed for most, ordinary people want peace, and I hope one day the extremists, Republican and Loyalist, will follow suit.
But please don't post uninformed kak like this here. Thanks.

I cannot begin to tell you how angry I feel.

MacSpadger - I agree 100%. I am the sole survivor of a seven man patrol that got blown up in Northern Ireland. I spent three weeks in a coma.

kiltbook - I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Regards

Chas

**Friday** · 9th August 12, 06:20 AM

Before we go to far off track here, as a veteran I ask if we can agree that combat/war is atrocious. Act of one side will always be seen as atrocities by the other.

May we, as the ladies and gentlemen that we are, raise a glass of our favorite beverage (single malt, soda, water) to all who have served regardless of side. Raise the glass in friendship and the hope that in the future better ways of ending differences can be found.

**David Thorpe** · 9th August 12, 06:22 AM

I'll drink to that.

**Skiballa** · 9th August 12, 06:36 AM

MacSpadger and Chas, I have to agree with your views, as I pointed out in a more light-hearted way, at some point it's time to let old wounds heal. There are more Irish citizens in Massachusetts than in Ireland, I know several older gentleman who were undoubtedly IRA. I've been called "Black" and worse by distant Irish relatives because I'm not catholic, sometimes I find the need to remind them that I'm American. Sometimes things are best left alone, especially closer to home. Having an imperfect understanding of those troublesome times certainly doesn't help. As a veteran of a very different military action, I wish you all the best in leaving it in the past and looking toward the future. I also know that memories can be quite persistent, and they can hit quite hard sometimes. I wish you all the best,

V/r
Adam

**Mael Coluim** · 9th August 12, 07:21 AM

Gentleman, please put this thread back on topic.

Mael for the XMTS Staff

**Mael Coluim** · 9th August 12, 08:28 AM

Two Off Topic Posts in possible violation of the Rules have been moved to the Holding Cell for review.

Gentlemen and Ladies, again I ask you to keep this thread on topic to keep it open. Thank you.

Mael for the XMTS staff

EDIT: 7th Off Topic post moved to Holding Cell

**Friday** · 9th August 12, 09:21 AM

How far back can you go to claim a clan relationship. About 300 years ago Great-Great-etc. Grandfather married a Montgomery. Can I wear wear Great-Great-etc Grandmothers family tartan?

**McElmurry** · 9th August 12, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by Friday

How far back can you go to claim a clan relationship. About 300 years ago Great-Great-etc. Grandfather married a Montgomery. Can I wear wear Great-Great-etc Grandmothers family tartan?

Each individual has to sort out their own reasons for wearing a tartan. Terms such as "can I" or is it "proper" are not entirely helpful. I have noticed some folks on this site defending a more liberal form of tartan selection than what they practice themselves. It seems like they are applying freedom of speech to tartan selection and defending another’s right which they themselves do not take advantage of. Other members mostly bite their tongues because their opinions are not completely in line with the inclusive nature of the site. If you want a better understanding of opinions on the issue read the threads in the Cooling off Corner. I have read them all (yes my jonesing is really that bad).