X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. #1
    Join Date
    18th March 24
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Posts
    64
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Highland Dress Catalogs

    I have seen many images from the estimable OC Richard from various catalogs of Highland wear. I wonder how many individuals are collectors of these catalogs, and I would like to know if anyone has the drive or interest to scan and share catalogs. I would find it useful and interesting to have these posted (especially under the Library forum topic). I understand that these are likely prized collector's items for aficionados of Scotland's national dress, and that one wouldn't want counterfeits to hit the market. However, I think it would be a great resource for the community.

    For my purposes, I am presently working on a personal website whose topic will be my exploration of Highland dress, and I have been mulling over topics that I find interesting to write articles on. On the topic of Highland wear as fashion, and trends in Highland wear in the market over time (which I believe OC Richard has commented on quite a bit), seeing catalogs and being able to contextualize these changes would be a terrific resource. I wouldn't want to trod on anyone's active research, though.

    For anyone that might be interested in the website, I'll likely post more about that as I get closer to launching the thing. I have the domain registered and I have my "brand" identity worked out. My design system for individual HTML entities is about a quarter done for the number of pages that I plan to launch with. I have been sidetracked by potential non-issues, like how I can make a static website that not many people will be interested to view even less interesting to web-scraping for LLM (large language model) training data. I'll try to have my "proof of concept" version of the website up with at least one article early 2026.

    Anyway, I hope that some of you will be interested in sharing what info you have on the history of Highland dress in sales catalogs through the decades.

  2. The Following 2 Users say 'Aye' to bookish For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    11,454
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sounds like a great project!

    Let me know, I'll help however I can.

    About the catalogues I have ongoing searches on Ebay.

    Some kinds come up fairly often and don't cost much, for example Paisley's and Anderson's from the 1930s.

    Others I've only seen come up once or twice over the last 20 years.

    Here's what I have. Almost never do these have dates. Sometimes there are hints like "His Late Majesty _______" but generally it's guessing from the hairstyles etc. So, the dates are circa.

    Leckie Graham c1909
    Fraser Ross (1920's female hairstyles)
    Forsyth c1930
    RG Lawrie pre-1936
    Anderson 1936 (dated inside)
    Paisley 1936 (dated inside)
    Rowan's 1938
    Anderson post-1953
    Forsyth c1955
    Tartan Gift Shop c1960

    I like to know the "when" of things, so I've scoured through these catalogues to create timelines for various aspects of Highland Dress. The ones below go from the The Highlanders Of Scotland (1860s, by far the largest body of colour portraits showing Highland Dress) to three 1983 catalogues I have (a snapshot of the beginning of the Kilt Hire Era). https://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/...-impact-96590/

    -Sporran timeline https://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/...s-1930s-95483/

    -Kilt yardage and fabric weight timeline

    -Tweed kilt jacket colour timeline https://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/...imeline-97700/

    -"Day" hose colour timeline

    -Timeline of Evening Dress jacket styles https://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/...jackets-93544/

    I also have digital copies of a fairly large number of 18th century colour oil portraits, in which quest I was greatly aided by Peter MacDonald.

    In these the evolution of Highland Dress can be traced throughout the 18th century.
    Last edited by OC Richard; Yesterday at 08:10 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  4. The Following User Says 'Aye' to OC Richard For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Join Date
    18th March 24
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Posts
    64
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    Sounds like a great project!

    Let me know, I'll help however I can.
    I will, thank you! As far as scanning is concerned, I only have experience with visiting Kinko's FedEx locations and scanning documents there. If you don't have access to a scanner, and your nearest photocopy shop has the tools for scanning, I would be happy to mail over a new USB stick and the funds to scan the catalogs. If you have a rig to take high quality images, that would be amazing, but getting consistent results like that would take some planning and setup.

    The details regarding hosting the scans so that they are accessible to all will be another matter. The Internet Archive has been a nice resource for me regarding certain books, like The Cutter's Practical Guide series by W D F Vincent. (Aside - This series has a few Highland wear articles of clothing spread out among the different books. I haven't done enough work on cataloging them, but those may be extra data points on re-affirming a timeline of Highland dress trends). However, I think one has to be careful how they catalog their uploads at the Internet Archive. I'm not ready for self-hosting, but when I get my own website up, I'll try to find a nice way to host and link resources.

    I am by no means in a hurry, as this is a hobby project. I would like to make something that is useful and interesting.

    Thank you for providing the links to your threads. I will definitely be using resources from XMarks with permission and proper citation when I have an article in the works.

  6. #4
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    11,454
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You're welcome!

    Those threads are old and I'm slowly acquiring more catalogues, and older ones, my most recent finds being my oldest.

    I've looked into finding out what our earliest-datable sporran is- an early 18th century painting.

    And I took a look at the earliest-datable shoes seen in Highland Dress.

    In trying to find "the earliest known sporran" there were three threads of evidence:

    1) historical/written accounts
    2) museum artifacts
    3) iconography

    #1 tells us when and where the writer saw something, but those accounts are vague and tell us little.

    #2 allows us to study the artifact in detail (materials, construction techniques, etc) but almost never tells us anything about when the thing was made, where it was made, or how it was used.

    For example we can't assume that because an artifact is in a Scottish museum that it has a Scottish origin- that line of reasoning would tell us that the Parthenon was a building in ancient London.

    And we can't know if an old-looking museum sporran really is! Because Victorian times were full of fakery and hoaxes. For decades there was an "ancient bagpipe" on display in Edinburgh, it was covered with carved Celtic knotwork and had the date "1409" carved into it. Experts who examined it concluded it was a 19th century fake.



    #3, specifically signed dated portraits done from life, is the only thing that tells us what the sporran looked like, when and where it was worn, and the outfit worn with it.
    Last edited by OC Richard; Yesterday at 07:16 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  7. #5
    Join Date
    21st October 21
    Location
    Memphis,Tn,USA
    Posts
    593
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have a few I could post pictures of. Most from the 1930s.

    Rowan’s 1938
    WM Andersons and Sons uncertain date 20s-30s
    Paisley Limited 1939

    I'm a software developer if you need any help with the site itself.
    Last edited by kilted2000; 26th November 25 at 06:34 PM. Reason: Added details
    Tha mi uabhasach sgith gach latha.
    “A man should look as if he has bought his clothes (kilt) with intelligence, put them (it) on with care, and then forgotten all about them (it).” Paraphrased from Hardy Amies
    Proud member of the Clans Urquhart and MacKenzie.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    2nd January 10
    Location
    Lethendy, Perthshire
    Posts
    4,777
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I have a copy of R. W. Forsyth's 1907 catalogue. All the evening shoes are buckle brogues.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	R. W. Forsyth 1907-15.jpg 
Views:	3 
Size:	301.7 KB 
ID:	44601

  9. The Following User Says 'Aye' to figheadair For This Useful Post:


  10. #7
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    11,454
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    I have a copy of R. W. Forsyth's 1907 catalogue. All the evening shoes are buckle brogues.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	R. W. Forsyth 1907-15.jpg 
Views:	3 
Size:	301.7 KB 
ID:	44601
    Interestingly the various old catalogues I have show two sorts of buckle brogues, with instep strap ("Mary Janes") and without (loafers/opera pumps) in addition to Ghillies with buckles incongruously stuck on



    The c1936 Anderson catalogue shows these choices.

    Putting buckles on Ghillies is like putting an earring on a pig.

    The buckle doesn't even fit! It's hanging partway over the opening.

    I wonder if the "plain patent shoes with buckles" are the things like opera pumps with buckles.



    The c1930 Lawrie catalogue (one of the illustrations is dated 1926) shows the standard buckle brogue (centre) and on the right a style which also appears in MacLeay, halfway between a Ghillie and a Mary Jane, MacLeay's having two pairs of eyelets while Lawrie's has three.



    Last edited by OC Richard; Yesterday at 07:06 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  11. #8
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    11,454
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    One of the interesting things to trace in these catalogues are the tartans.

    The Kilt: A Manual of Scottish National Dress (1914) makes no mention of tartan colourings or dyes.

    Leckie Graham 1909, in their list of Fine Saxony and Heavy Saxony tartans (42 tartans each) doesn't mention alternative colourings.

    Forsyth c1930 says
    "The most recent and important development has been the return to the authentic colourings of the Original Tartans...By means of a new and perfected process...the beautiful soft colourings of the Old and Rare Tartans were reproduced faithfully...To this movement forward Forsyth's gave full support from the beginning..."

    Andersons 1936 says
    "it has now become possible to reproduce with a certain new process the old light and delicate shades yielded by the vegetable dyes which often disclose unsuspected beauties in the design of tartans which have appeared commonplace when manufactured with ordinary aniline dyes."

    In another place they refer to this as "vegetable colourings".

    Rowans 1938 says
    "Rowan Kilts to-day are tailored from Tartans which in colour and texture are true reproductions of the Tartans of a hundred and more years ago...The ancient colourings throw up the setting and give to the tartan a soft and mellow appearance..."

    Though all this suggests that "vegetable colourings" were new in the 1930s, this illustration certainly appears to show those colours.



    We're on much firmer ground as to when the colour-scheme Lochcarron calls "weathered colours" first appeared.







    So Dalgliesh introduced their "reproduction colours" in the late 1940s, which at some point was copied wholesale by Lochcarron who dubbed it "weathered colours" (bottom left).

    (Beware that bottom right, House of Edgar's "muted colours", is a different tartan, having the green and blue stripes reversed.)

    Last edited by OC Richard; Yesterday at 08:32 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  12. #9
    Join Date
    14th June 21
    Location
    Strathdon, Aberdeenshire
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    [QUOTE=OC Richard;1413080]

    Andersons 1936 says
    "it has now become possible to reproduce with a certain new process the old light and delicate shades yielded by the vegetable dyes which often disclose unsuspected beauties in the design of tartans which have appeared commonplace when manufactured with ordinary aniline dyes."

    Here is an example of that:

    Attachment 44605

    This shows the Wilsons of Bannockburn c1830s version overlaid with a 1950s Lochcaron weaving of the same clan tartan that was made into a kilt by Wm Andersons.

  13. #10
    Join Date
    2nd January 10
    Location
    Lethendy, Perthshire
    Posts
    4,777
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    [QUOTE=Troglodyte;1413088]
    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post

    Andersons 1936 says
    "it has now become possible to reproduce with a certain new process the old light and delicate shades yielded by the vegetable dyes which often disclose unsuspected beauties in the design of tartans which have appeared commonplace when manufactured with ordinary aniline dyes."

    Here is an example of that:

    Attachment 44605

    This shows the Wilsons of Bannockburn c1830s version overlaid with a 1950s Lochcaron weaving of the same clan tartan that was made into a kilt by Wm Andersons.
    Houston, we have a problem.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Untitled-1.jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	45.4 KB 
ID:	44606

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0