Tartan Fabric-> ALL MAKERS!

**RockyR** · 3rd June 06, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Barb T.

To be honest, I've been disappointed with Fraser and Kirkbright's tartan. Yes, it's less expensive than Scottish tartan, but, to my mind, it has lots of problems. I'm in the middle of making kilts from the XMarks tartan that they wove, and the selvedge isn't perfect enough for kilting (at least in my opinion - the turned threads at the selvedge bleeds the color and makes half of the white stripe a muddy blue in the XMarks tartan). I've used other tartans from their mill that also don't have kilting selvedges. Having said that, thought, this isn't an enormous problem, because you could easily put a hem in the kilt.

Far more serious is the fact that the XMarks tartan is woven in double width and the two halves _do not match_ in the size of the sett. In fact, from the selvedge to the center, one half is almost 3/8" bigger than the other, so you have to fudge the join. I made a kilt years ago from tartan woven by Fraser and Kirkbright's predecessor, and the tartan had the same problem, and I was hoping that the new owners would fix the problem, but this evidently hasn't happened.

And the XMarks tartan is supposed to be 14 oz, but it doesn't have the substantial feel of 14 oz Lochcarron or House of Edgar tartan, and there are visible spaces between the threads. It's almost as if the thread isn't quite heavy enough for the number of threads per inch chosen for the weave.

I didn't want to say anything, but since you said it, I'll second those sentiments. The selvedge is poor and the sett size was a bit off when I joined the 2 halves together.

Also, I've found that the wool is very "stretchy". When lining up the horizontal lines across the pleats, I have to tug on the material and misalign it so that when it gets hit by the needle it matches up.

**Barb T** · 3rd June 06, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by RockyR

Also, I've found that the wool is very "stretchy". When lining up the horizontal lines across the pleats, I have to tug on the material and misalign it so that when it gets hit by the needle it matches up.

I agree, and I suspect that the stretchiness is related to the spaces between the threads - if the threads were more tightly packed, the fabric would be stiffer and more stable.

Barb

**RockyR** · 3rd June 06, 01:09 PM

Kelly said the same thing...

**KiltedCodeWarrior** · 3rd June 06, 05:47 PM

Matt expressed the same problems to me when he received the fabric. Sounds like we need a new weaver for the Xmarks tartan run #3.

**RockyR** · 4th June 06, 08:15 AM

I'd suggest Batley. I think they have a good product at a great price. The only problem with using them is the shipping cost is a little high.

**KiltedPilot** · 4th June 06, 05:05 PM

Clearly not Steve's fault. He has very kindly handled all the administration of getting this put together.

But has anyone alerted Steve directly before he places a new order? Wasn't he getting close to placing one?

KP

**KiltedCodeWarrior** · 4th June 06, 05:54 PM

KP, Steve is/was aware of the issues when placing the second run. The run that is currently under way is the second portion of ths second run. F&K ran out of yarn midway through the second XMarks run and so it was divided into 2 runs. The current run is the completion of the official "second" run of the XMarks tartan.

And I agree that this is not Steve's fault. He was simply dealing as a coordinator of the weaving and shipping of the tartan. And that is no small task.

**elijah** · 4th June 06, 10:42 PM

I use http://www.thescottishweaver.com

**Alan H** · 4th June 06, 10:55 PM

Rocky, remember those swatches I sent around when we were looking into who might weave the first run of X Marks tartan? That was N. Bately's stuff.

Their polyviscose is nothing as good as Marton Mills, not even close. It's got to be about 7-8 once at best, and the selvedge is awful.

Their weight classifiactions were way off, I think all the kiltmakers commented on that. Their "16 ounce" was more like a 13 ounce, their 13 was more like an 11. The kilitng selvedges weren't even as good as what I'm seeing from Fraser and Kirkbright. Folks did like th quality of the material, away from the edges, though.

In my experience, Bately, as a company was communicationally dysfunctional. But that's just my experience....

Those are hard words, but that's what I remember.

**RockyR** · 5th June 06, 06:29 AM

Elijah,

The Scottish Weaver (aka Peter Wilson) is the US rep for F & K. Not everyone knows that, so I figured I'd clarify it for ya'.

Originally Posted by Alan H

Rocky, remember those swatches I sent around when we were looking into who might weave the first run of X Marks tartan? That was N. Bately's stuff.

Their polyviscose is nothing as good as Marton Mills, not even close. It's got to be about 7-8 once at best, and the selvedge is awful.

Their weight classifiactions were way off, I think all the kiltmakers commented on that. Their "16 ounce" was more like a 13 ounce, their 13 was more like an 11. The kilitng selvedges weren't even as good as what I'm seeing from Fraser and Kirkbright. Folks did like th quality of the material, away from the edges, though.

In my experience, Bately, as a company was communicationally dysfunctional. But that's just my experience....

Those are hard words, but that's what I remember.

Hey Alan... this is no reflection on you and ALL the work you did getting this whole XMARKS tartan thing going. Please don't take offense to these comments...

If you remember, I didn't speak negatively about Batley. Since I wasn't getting material and you wanted to go with F & K, I went with it. I actually use Batley on a regular basis and personally think they're head and shoulders above F & K.

I agree that Batley's PV was (is) crap, but their wool is fine! As a point of clarification, they only HAD 11 oz (they call it "Cuillin") and 14 oz (they call it Torridon) wool. They NOW have (beginning this past January) a 16 oz category, but at the time you got the swatches, they were only 11 and 14 oz. Also, I'm not sure why you think their selvedge edges were poor, but they're MUCH better than the ones I've seen on F & K's Xmarks tartan.

As to the comminication issues... I've not had a problem. I email them and receive answers immediately (especially about bills I owe them

).

I'm not trying to rip on any particular company or anything... I'm just making observations I've noticed through dealing with several different mills. Honestly, I have no vested interest in where the next batch of Xmarks tartan comes from as I'm not on the list of those getting the material. I'm just trying to get the people here the best material for the money.