Namesakes

[Chas]

But let me be a little more clear as to my question, if I was to be wearing a kilt from the Ross clan and either competing in the games or if asked the question, Whats your lineage? I would like to respond in the proper form, i.e Stiverson with the Andrews Sept of Clan Ross! Or however it would be said!

Hi Sapper,

Whether this will help or not, I don't know.

As far as I have discovered, EVERY clan will accept a person as a clan member as long as they undertake to support that clan and as long as they pay the membership fee. This is little different to when a man went to a clan chief and swore allegiance to him to become a member of the clan. Then, a man paid with service, now with money; but the allegiance is the same. If Clan Ross accept you as a member then that is between you and them; it is no one else's business.

There are no Lineage Police. If someone asks you your lineage, they are either being polite and trying to make conversation or they are trying to look important. No one in the whole world knows all the possible septs of all the clans and more importantly 'No One Cares'.

When someone asks 'How do you do?', they expect the same in return. They do not want to hear about that little bowel problem you've been having this last week; watch their eyes glaze over as you tell them. Likewise, 'What's your lineage?' should be replied with a snappy 'Sept of Clan Ross' and nothing more.

What if you, or one of your ancestors was illegitimate - born on the wrong side of the blanket as it is so politely said? Would anybody expect you to reveal your relative's indiscretion to a totally random stranger in a field. I think not. None of their business.

If you are happy to be in Clan Ross, that is your lineage and association. Clan is another word for family. Wear the tartan, work in the clan tent, be a good family member. There is not a lot else that a man can either ask for or deliver.

Regards

Chas

[Scotus]

When someone asks 'How do you do?', they expect the same in return. They do not want to hear about that little bowel problem you've been having this last week; watch their eyes glaze over as you tell them. Likewise, 'What's your lineage?' should be replied with a snappy 'Sept of Clan Ross' and nothing more.
Chas

This is the best advice I've read in this thread. As Chas and Jock Scot have said, have a quick confident reply. My grandmother bore a Scottish maiden name and my mother has a Scottish maiden name, but I choose to wear a tartan that goes quite a ways back because of personal, historical, and genealogical reasons. Since I bear an English surname, when asked the question, I reply, "I have a family connection with the clan." I know that would be obvious because of the tartan I'm wearing, but it's like Chas said, when people ask, "How are you?", they really expect you to say, "I'm fine; and you?". They don't want to know about the bad day you're having, nor does anyone really want to know your exact genealogical connection to a certain clan. Hope this is helpful advice.

[gilmore]

Ah, but Gilmore, have you considered or pondered if your ancestors, as they were in their time, would accept or not accept you as you are now? Would you have been accepted into their clan by their chief, or would you have been thrown out and rejected... or worse? I think there are other questions beyond the DNA that might be important before you have the "clan crest" tatooed on your back or spend every last penny you have on a kilt in a tartan.

It's irrelevant whether my clan ancestors would accept me. Likely they wouldn't. I am sure I would not accept some of them.

Clans are history. The clan system had been in decline for centuries before they were actively suppressed after the '75 uprising. The past is the past, and immutable. Only schizophrenics and prevaricators hold otherwise. The clans one's ancestors were in may be an interesting relic worthy of conversation (or they may not,) but to actively and knowingly misrepresent things for one's own present day self-aggrandizement is a different kettle of haggis.

[Scotus]

It's irrelevant whether my clan ancestors would accept me. Likely they wouldn't. I am sure I would not accept some of them.

Amen to that!

[Kilted Sapper]

Thanks to everyones input but can anyone tell me the way to say your lineage? Jock Scot, can u help me out on this? I just dont want to be that one athlete with a dutch name competing in the games and everyone snicker when they announce my surname for Clan Ross?

[Kilted Sapper]

Gilmore in your ramblings you sound as an intelligent gent but to disgrace a Clan idealogy is absurd! Everything is built on a Clan system, being a 23 yr veteran and a 2 time combat vet, everything revolves around clans. Be them Scottish or the Marines, Army or whomever and I take traditions very serious, I don't wear my combat medals because they are pretty colors. I wear them because I have earned them and fought with my clansmen to get them. I am not doing this to be able to pat myself on the back but to carry on a name that I believe is my past. By the way the comment "the past is the past" irks me because there are a lot of traditions brought forth from the military that holds just as much water today as it did back then.

SORRY, off my soap opera now!

[Bugbear]

It's irrelevant whether my clan ancestors would accept me. Likely they wouldn't. I am sure I would not accept some of them.

Clans are history. The clan system had been in decline for centuries before they were actively suppressed after the '75 uprising. The past is the past, and immutable. Only schizophrenics and prevaricators hold otherwise. The clans one's ancestors were in may be an interesting relic worthy of conversation (or they may not,) but to actively and knowingly misrepresent things for one's own present day self-aggrandizement is a different kettle of haggis.

Fair enough. Just wondering how you view all this, as I am coming from a prospective that I should not wear a clan tartan because the connection is too far back, and has too much non-Scot history inbetween; so picked a more relevant, non-clan tartan to stick with... I agree, though, picking a clan tartan, then making up a connection to it is not a good approach to this.

[Jock Scot]

Thanks to everyones input but can anyone tell me the way to say your lineage? Jock Scot, can u help me out on this? I just dont want to be that one athlete with a dutch name competing in the games and everyone snicker when they announce my surname for Clan Ross?

Well alright let's get real! You have the name you have got(sorry I can't recall it) and it is a Dutch sounding one. This happens with all sorts of non Scottish names all over the world,even in Scotland, when people are competing in Highland games events. Nothing unusual there. OK, you want to represent Clan Ross ,it could be any clan, but Clan Ross is yours, so it would be perfectly proper to be announced as Mr Dutchman of Clan Ross.The "of" allows a great deal of leeway! You don't need to bring along your pedigree, you know!

The ignorant may well snicker, those that know a bit would go "oh right there must be a connection somewhere" those that know more than a bit would go "oh I expect his mother was a Ross", in all honesty I doubt that any one will take any notice. Does it really matter? Probably to you at the moment, yes! In fact, just get on and enjoy yourself and while you are doing it just take note of the many non Scots names that are tossing the caber, or whatever! I guarantee, you will not be alone! Have fun!

[Chas]

Jock - you beat me to it -

Thanks to everyones input but can anyone tell me the way to say your lineage? Jock Scot, can u help me out on this? I just dont want to be that one athlete with a dutch name competing in the games and everyone snicker when they announce my surname for Clan Ross?

Sapper, you are getting yourself all twisted up about something that isn't there. If you have pledged fealty to the clan chief or his deputy you are Stiverson of Clan Ross. That's it, there is no more to be said. It is YOU that is pledging allegiance to the clan chief, not some ancestor - YOU.

Regards

Chas

[Kilted Sapper]

Thanks Jock and to you also Chas, I am enlightened and now I just need to work on that damn caber....12 oclock, 12 oclock, 12 oclock or something to that nature, Thanks again!