Jabot's, cravats, and ascots.

[OC Richard]

All these things strike my eye as being quasi-historical rather than traditional (going with the definition of "traditional" as being handed down in an unbroken continuum, and a constant process of evolution).

Because by the mid 19th century, and up into the early years of the 20th, ordinary neckties had come to be worn with the kilt both in informal and formal Highland dress.

The Highlanders Of Scotland presents an amazingly wide spectrum, an almost unbelievable variety, of the Highland Dress of the 1850s (with numerous shoe styles, jacket styles, sporran styles, hose styles, headdress styles, dirk styles, and so on, which no longer exist) yet all the men are wearing ordinary white shirts and the ordinary neckties of that era (nearly always plain black).

Nothing remotely resembling a jabot.

I also have hundreds of photographs of men in Highland Dress from the mid 19th century up through the early years of the 20th which show the same thing.

But in old Highland Dress catalogues from the 1920s and 1930s jabots do appear, worn with the new Evening jackets with closed standup collars, the Montrose and the Kenmore.

The Prince Charlie, also new at that time, is usually shown with wing collar shirt and bow tie, but sometimes with jabot.

So to me they are much of a muchness, the Prince Charlie, the Montrose, the jabot, the modern Day and Evening sporrans... the new Highland Dress which evolved in the early 20th century.

[Cowher]

You make a good point Matthew. Without the kilt neck wear such as this would out shine the suit yet the kilt itself is so capturing that neckwear such as a cravat does not out shine the kilt rather it melts into a outfit that is very fitting for the kilt.

On a sidenote the picture below looks incredible to me. I think it's the way it's tied. The shirt looks to me like a regular shirt with the coller turned up. But does any one know how you would tie it in this way?

[Kilted Magyar]

The photo shows a stock tie. It is simply a square knot. I can't supply a diagram but a trip to a tack shop that specializes in English style tack could have someone demonstrate how to tie one. I have a dia but don't know how to post it to this site. If you like send me a PM and I could send you a copy as an e-mail attachment.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

The same website the above photo is from has a "how to tie" section:
http://elegantascot.com/howtotie.html

[JSFMACLJR]

All these things strike my eye as being quasi-historical rather than traditional (going with the definition of "traditional" as being handed down in an unbroken continuum, and a constant process of evolution).

Because by the mid 19th century, and up into the early years of the 20th, ordinary neckties had come to be worn with the kilt both in informal and formal Highland dress.

The Highlanders Of Scotland presents an amazingly wide spectrum, an almost unbelievable variety, of the Highland Dress of the 1850s (with numerous shoe styles, jacket styles, sporran styles, hose styles, headdress styles, dirk styles, and so on, which no longer exist) yet all the men are wearing ordinary white shirts and the ordinary neckties of that era (nearly always plain black).

Nothing remotely resembling a jabot.

I also have hundreds of photographs of men in Highland Dress from the mid 19th century up through the early years of the 20th which show the same thing.

.

Well Richard, I guess you haven't seen enough paintings! Here are two of Sir Fitzroy Maclean of Duart, both from the 19th century. In each case Sir Fitzroy is wearing a jabot.




Jabots, then and now, are much more popular in the West Highlands and Isles than elsewhere.

The third painting is of the 8th Duke of Argyll, painted in 1892 . The Duke clearly is wearing a black stock or cravat here...on a doublet which could be the "prototype" for the closed doublets some claim were invented in the 1920s!

[JSFMACLJR]

What do you think of them in formal kilt wear? Do you own one? Would you like to?
Do you think they are too old fashioned and out of date or are they still viable?

Please explain your thoughts. And remember to use pictures.
ith:

I wear jabots quite often: always to white tie events when I wear the kilt, and occasionally for black tie events too. I choose to wear them because
a. I like the look
b. Men in my family have worn them with evening dress going back over a century
c. They are more popular in the Western Isles and West Highlands of Scotland, from whence my people come.

I don't always wear lace cuffs, though!

[Cowher]

The same website the above photo is from has a "how to tie" section:
http://elegantascot.com/howtotie.html

Oh so a like a four in hand but you just don't put in in the loop. Right?
Why does the picture look like it's wrapped a few times around the neck?

[artificer]

Oh so a like a four in hand but you just don't put in in the loop. Right?
Why does the picture look like it's wrapped a few times around the neck?

It starts at the front, wraps around the rear, and is knotted again at the front.

http://www.horse-rider-etc.com/foxhunt/tiestocktie.html

ith: