Always wondered - time to ask

**NeightRG** · 5th August 11, 08:03 PM

There's an image that's always fascinated me, I know it's popped up here a time or two. This one, from the book "Windsor Style" -

What gets me is the Royal Stewart tartan up front - what a huge sett!

Not to knock the Royal Stewart tartan - I made a kilt out of it for myself and wear it regularly - but it's always been a bit loud for my taste, with it's bright colours and relatively small repeat. But this large sett has such elegance.

Is there a name for extra large sett tartan like this?

**slohairt** · 5th August 11, 08:29 PM

Yes. "Extra Royal Stewart".

(Sorry!) But seriously, you'll find that Royal Stewart varies in sett size from mill to mill, though not that much. However, if you were to order a custom weave, you could alter the thread count to produce a much larger sett.

**Jock Scot** · 5th August 11, 08:30 PM

What a good question! I am no expert, so no doubt an answer will be forthcoming from those that know, but as far as I know, they are just called large setts of a particular tartan.

If I may, can I add a question or three? With these large setts how difficult is it to pleat say a knife pleated kilt to the sett? Is it easier to pleat to the stripe? Alright, I understand some tartans are quite complicated, but for example how about a Montgomery, or a MacNeil?

**slohairt** · 5th August 11, 08:45 PM

Jock,

Simplicity of design wouldn't factor that much, really. It would depend how often a certain element is repeated within the sett. If only once, then you would have to use the whole sett per pleat, regardless of whether you're pleating to the sett or stripe. If an element occurs more than once, then more pleats per sett could be produced.

Kilts made in really big setts tend to have fewer pleats overall than their smaller sett counterparts.

**Jock Scot** · 5th August 11, 08:53 PM

Thank you for that. With this thread and another one going at full steam ,my mind is starting to have expensive thoughts!

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 6th August 11, 04:13 AM

I cannot seem to see the image for some reason. But I can imagine what you are describing. There is no particular name for a tartan woven with a large sett size. You'd still just call it "Royal Stewart," though woven with say a 14" sett repeat as opposed to a 7.5" repeat.

Occasionally a woolen mill will offer two versions of the same tartan in different sett sizes, and offer them under different names, but this is generally just "in house" terminology.

For example, I recently received a length of "Old Campbell" tartan from Lochcarron for a kilt I'm making. It is exactly the same as their ordinary Campbell tartan, only woven with a slightly smaller sett. Outside of this range of cloth from Lochcarron, if you referred to the "Old Campbell" tartan I wouldn't know what you were talking about.

In the nineteenth century it was more common for mills to offer the same tartan in multiple sett sizes. For example, if you look at this pattern book, you will note that they offer a 42nd tartan, and a "Small 42nd" tartan. Likewise they offer a Davidson and a "Small Davidson." The same is true with Glengarry and MacKenzie. They even offer three different sizes of the Rob Roy!

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 6th August 11, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by slohairt

Kilts made in really big setts tend to have fewer pleats overall than their smaller sett counterparts.

To illustrate the point, here is a kilt I made using just over 5 yards of cloth. The sett size is fairly typical, I think 7" or thereabouts. I believe there are 16 pleats in this one.

This second kilt is made to the exact same measurements, from 6 yards of cloth. But the sett is larger, I believe 9.75". So despite having slightly more cloth, I only have 12 pleats.

(The reason I cannot be more precise the numbers above is that both kilts are hanging in my closet, and I don't want to disturb my slumbering wife in the bedroom!)

**figheadair** · 6th August 11, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome

In the nineteenth century it was more common for mills to offer the same tartan in multiple sett sizes. For example, if you look at this pattern book, you will note that they offer a 42nd tartan, and a "Small 42nd" tartan. Likewise they offer a Davidson and a "Small Davidson." The same is true with Glengarry and MacKenzie. They even offer three different sizes of the Rob Roy!

Of course as discussed elsewhere Matt what you have there is a Scott-Adie bound book of Wilsons' samples and it was the latter who, as 'the' C19th tartans weavers gave us so much of the nomenclature with which we are familiar today. Their 1819 Key Pattern Book includes the following specifications or sizes: Plaid sett, Kilt sett, Coarse kilt, Fine kilt, Small and Smallest although not all setts were woven in all these sizes and a majority of the terms refered to their military tartans albeit Small and Smallest 42nd etc seem to have been for the civilian market.

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 6th August 11, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by figheadair

Of course as discussed elsewhere Matt what you have there is a Scott-Adie bound book of Wilsons' samples and it was the latter who, as 'the' C19th tartans weavers gave us so much of the nomenclature with which we are familiar today. Their 1819 Key Pattern Book includes the following specifications or sizes: Plaid sett, Kilt sett, Coarse kilt, Fine kilt, Small and Smallest although not all setts were woven in all these sizes and a majority of the terms refered to their military tartans albeit Small and Smallest 42nd etc seem to have been for the civilian market.

Yes, and I see that in the same Scott Adie book they have a "Smallest Prince Charles Edward."

It seems that whereas today we have our choice of color schemes (modern, ancient, weathered), our ancestors 150 years ago had their choice of sett size!