The Kilt Kops

[DWFII]

You use the term "Kilten Polizei" (German reference), is this some sort of reference that traditionalist are facist or worse.

I don't know what Irish Jack meant but this is the kind of thing that bothers me.

How easily it is, once started...once allowed...for things to degenerate into vitriol.

A previous poster suggested that most of the references to "kilt police" refer to people off the forum. Some do. Most, in my experience, don't. Most are, in fact, located in discussions that reference Traditional Kilt wear. In one way or another, they are all saying, by implication if not directly, that anyone who comments or criticizes about the appropriateness of wearing the kilt below the knees, for instance, is somehow illiberal or even...as you say...fascist.

To my mind it just flies in the face of everything this forum says it's about...flies in the face of all the self-congratulatory posturing about respect and tolerance and gentlemanly behaviour...to indulge in this kind of petty name-calling, no matter who it's aimed at.

[Taygrd]

I don't know if that was what he meant either, I was using and stated it as an example of how things can be taken and twisted into something entirely different from what the honest intent was.

[kc8ufv]

I don't know what Irish Jack meant but this is the kind of thing that bothers me.

How easily it is, once started...once allowed...for things to degenerate into vitriol.

A previous poster suggested that most of the references to "kilt police" refer to people off the forum. Some do. Most, in my experience, don't. Most are, in fact, located in discussions that reference Traditional Kilt wear. In one way or another, they are all saying, by implication if not directly, that anyone who comments or criticizes about the appropriateness of wearing the kilt below the knees, for instance, is somehow illiberal or even...as you say...fascist.

To my mind it just flies in the face of everything this forum says it's about...flies in the face of all the self-congratulatory posturing about respect and tolerance and gentlemanly behaviour...to indulge in this kind of petty name-calling, no matter who it's aimed at.

Admittedly, I don't look at the traditional subforum too often.

[Irish Jack O'Brian]

Sorry, I've been away from the interwebs. But I see some explanation of my post is in order.

First, as to the "Kilten Polizei" comment: I really need to get a handle on the emoticon thing. It was meant as a joke based on the 'Kilt Polis' post. I did not mean it to refer to fascism (unless there was a hidden "Godwin's Law" wish in there somewhere.)

Second, as to name-calling, I do not consider the term 'Kilt Kops' name-calling. It's a joking descriptive term, unlike "kilt cretins" which I do consider name-calling.

Third, my original point was that the Highlanders' disapproval of the wearing of the kilt by any but a Highlander (which position I have seen repeatedly held in this forum) was a hurtful idea to the world-wide Scottish diaspora. That is true. When I first came to understand my Scottish ancestry, I thought that the wearing of the kilt was a great way to honor my ancestors. And when I first came to XMTS, I thought that I would find Scots and Scots descendants who would welcome those who wanted to honor their heritage. I have bucked the idea that I am not worthy of wearing my ancestors tartan for these many months. I was naive.

Between my post of yesterday and today, I have changed my tune. Only Highlanders currently living in Scotland or first generation offspring of full-bred Highlanders, but living outwith Scotland have a right to wear the clan tartan of their father's name. All others are poseurs playing at being Scot.

This change has come because of a conversation I had this evening with a gentleman residing in Texas, but whose parents live in Aberdeen. He holds essentially the exact same views as Jock Scot, and he assured me that virtually all Highlanders hold the view that the so-called diaspora are far removed from Scotland and that it is a mockery of Highlandism to see an outlander in the kilt. He said other things, but that was the essence.

So, I give. I'm not a Highlander. I'm a Texan. I will probably wear the kilt at my family reunion, and at the occasional Celtic Festival, but otherwise, I am putting it up. Also, I will visit this forum less often.

[robthehiker]

he assured me that virtually all Highlanders hold the view that the so-called diaspora are far removed from Scotland and that it is a mockery of Highlandism to see an outlander in the kilt. He said other things, but that was the essence.

So what if they do believe that? You'd change how you dress because some people 4,000 miles away don't approve?? You'd better change your religion and political views while you're at it...

[Dale Seago]

. . .Highlandism. . .

Hmm. Remarkably apropos term.

[Zardoz]

Hmm. Remarkably apropos term.

Yeah, I got a chuckle out of the "Highlandism" reference. "I do not think it means what you think it means"
I think a lot of folks on this forum could benefit from reading two very enlightening books, 'The Invention of Tradition' and 'Highland Heritage', where that word is used quite a bit.

[Chirs]

"I do not think it means what you think it means"

Inconceivable!!

[Dale Seago]

Inconceivable!!

Ya beat me to it.

[Taygrd]

Read 'Highland Heritage' and it was amusing and insightful at the same time. I have never attended a Highland Games or Celtic festival since I do not like crowded events. I wear the kilt on formal occaisons about four times a year and the rest of the time I wear one with a T-shirt and crocs around the house and shop.
When most refer to highland tradition they are thinking of the Victorian Walter Scott romaticized version. My idea of it goes much farther back than that, I remember my grandfather toasting "the wee gentleman in velvet." The last ancestor of mine that left Scotland during the clearances, landed in Canada and worked as a logger. Different branches of the family tree left at different times some before the 45' some after but all were Jacobites. My mother has traced our roots to Flodden and beyond. That is the heritage I speak of, not white hose is a no no, or your kilt is too short. I could care less if a first or second generation Scot say I have no right to wear the kilt or that it should not be worn out of Scotland. I have had a drink or two with Vicount Dunrossil right here in Texas and he was kilted and thought nothing of me being kilted. Scots are terse, blunt, gruff, grumpy, and opinionated. Native Scots may not like this "diaspora" that has spread worldwide. I respect their (Native Scots) opinion and I let it influence my actions only to the point that I try to represent my heritage in what I consider a respectful manner. On other post I may have put forth short terse response, and came back and tried to explain myself better latter on. I PMed those who might have put off by my comments.
There have been a lot of I and me's in the first paragraph, now what about you? IMHO You should realize that everyone has an opinion, some can present it respectfully and some cannot. IMHO Not everyone who disagrees with you is arguing with you or passing judgement. No one has the right to tell you that you should not wear the kilt. ( Not backtracking here, I never said that but it was interpreted by others that I did) IMHO If you read something you do not think is right ask the poster to explain it. It is a discussion and should be treated like one.

Texas Jack O'Brian, I felt from your other postings that was not your intention and I apologize for not asking you before I used it as an example.