Whatever has happened to manners

[Alan H]

You see, in the story, it wasn't about whether or not you give your seat up to a lady. I'm a man of the 21st century and I'm fully aware that women are just as able-bodied as men. I believe in being polite to people, whether they are women or men. Someone with an obvious physical need - elderly, disabled, pregnant, whatever - gets the courtesy of the seat. I also hold the door for anyone, regardless of gender, especially if they are older. It's actually a bit sad when you see the faces of an older person when you perform an act of kindness. They seem amazed, as if they don't believe it.

Which kind of brings us back to Dereks original post, where the woman in question clearly needed a seat. It wasn't really the fact that she was a woman, was it? I think we all got a bit sidetracked here. I certainly did.

[Cowher]

Deleted. Not worth the risk.

[Newfoundlander]

I've been following this thread for some time now, and have to say, I enjoy reading everyones point of view on this topic.

The only thing I can say really is, I am what I am, and I am how I was raised, and I'll live the manners and values that I have. That's just the way it is. Even for me at 28 being part of the "current generation."

Is that against current convention? Possibly.

Does that matter to me? Not in the slightest.

Some here have mention being rebuked for acting as gentlemen, and for say, holding the door for a lady. I have experienced this once. A singular time. Out of the hundreds of times I've held the door for ladies. So, by far and away, most ladies I've encountered have been appreciative.

I am currently a Masters student at Dalhousie University in Halifax. DAL is a school dominated by female students for a total of approx. 60%+ of the student population. So I get the opportunity to hold the door for quite a few young ladies, and have gotten reactions ranging from "thanks," to a simple smile, to "its nice to know there are still some polite guys left."

On the other side of that coin, would these young ladies on their way to class mind if a young lad didn't hold the door for her? I have no idea, I'm not a young lady. Perhaps I'll ask a young lady I work with whose also an MSc student and see what she says...

A thought did just pop into my head though. Many of us here have these good manners that may be against current convention for manners, regardless of our age. An ideal that is somewhat off the mainstream (seemingly). I wonder now if this is in any way linked to wearing a kilt? Which is to say, wearing an article of clothing that is decidedly off the mainstream (Scotland notwithstanding)? I could be making an association that certainly does not exist, but it's interesting to ponder for a bit anyway...

Anyway ladies and gentlemen, I'll leave that there for now and go think about my thesis!

[Father Bill]

I for one am greatly disturbed by the degredation of the meaning of certain words. I referred the other day to a group of "ladies" and was told that I should have used the term "women." I icily replied that I jolly well expect that they were "ladies," and further that I expect to be thought of as a "gentleman."

I have also been told off (by a woman - not a lady) that I was disgusting for holding open the door for her. In fact I hold open the door for anyone following me.

Similar stories abound, but the bottom line is that good manners in many cases are being ruined by those who think they are boosting the cause of gender equality or other such reasonable goals while in actual fact, many of them are just too stupid to understand what they are truly saying, and are only attacking thoughtfulness (always the basis and reason for good manners) in the name of a cause they poorly understand.

[Meggers]

I for one am greatly disturbed by the degredation of the meaning of certain words. I referred the other day to a group of "ladies" and was told that I should have used the term "women." I icily replied that I jolly well expect that they were "ladies," and further that I expect to be thought of as a "gentleman."

I have also been told off (by a woman - not a lady) that I was disgusting for holding open the door for her. In fact I hold open the door for anyone following me.

Similar stories abound, but the bottom line is that good manners in many cases are being ruined by those who think they are boosting the cause of gender equality or other such reasonable goals while in actual fact, many of them are just too stupid to understand what they are truly saying, and are only attacking thoughtfulness (always the basis and reason for good manners) in the name of a cause they poorly understand.

Id love to meet these ladies. I hear these stories all the time and I have a VERY hard time picturing any human being being that downright obnoxious and rude. I almost hope I dont meet them because I don't know if I could ignore that.

That makes me so sad. I get annoyed when people DONT hold the door open for me. It's common courtesy! Doesnt matter if you are a man, woman, child, gorilla, you hold the door open for the person behind you!!

In fact, if a man holds the door open for me and lets me go in first, I find that extremely flattering. If he were in a kilt while doing it, he may have won himself a new girlfriend

[CopperNGold]

This thread has left me feeling rather sad.

[Tobus]

When I hold a door for someone to walk through, and then someone else walks through as if I'm part of the furniture whose existence is centered around holding the door for them, I thank them, aloud, for walking through my door. Or, sometimes, I'll say, again aloud, "You're welcome".

I take my fun where I can find it.

I've seen people do that, and I always cringe. If you're holding the door for someone in the expectation of receiving a thank-you, then you're doing it for the wrong reason. I'm of the opinion that if the person thanks me (which they always do... this is Texas), then it's nice. But if they didn't, then it's no skin off my back. It doesn't change anything for me, and it certainly doesn't justify me one-upping them on the rudeness scale.

I find it really hard to believe that a woman would berate a man for holding the door open. I've never experienced it, and couldn't see it happening in my area. Women just aren't like that here. They always say thank-you or nod and smile, or make some minor effort to acknowledge your gesture politely.

But even if I did get a butt-chewing over it, it wouldn't change anything. I will continue to hold doors for women, and give up a seat for a woman precisely because she is a woman, and regardless of her physical condition. If that makes me a sexist pig, well, I can live with that.

[Lyle1]

But even if I did get a butt-chewing over it, it wouldn't change anything. I will continue to hold doors for women, and give up a seat for a woman precisely because she is a woman, and regardless of her physical condition. If that makes me a sexist pig, well, I can live with that.

Years ago, I read a quip about a women who berated a man who held the door for her. She asked, in a mocking tone of voice, if he was hold the door because she was a lady. He told her that he was holding the door because he was a gentleman!

[calscot]

Mr. Calscot is a gentleman, and as such always holds doors open for ladies and gives up his seat on buses/subways when the opportunity arises. He did have one instance when a woman took offense to him holding the door open for her; she said "I'm not old and I'm not a ----(insert your favorite expletive here) invalid, so you don't need to hold the door for me.
Hubby said "right, ok" and promptly let the door swing shut in her face.

I happen to be a lady, and I appreciate a gentleman who will open doors for me. It doesn't mean I'm old fashioned or unenlightened or unaware of a woman's role in today's world; it just means I recognize and value common courtesy.

[Steve Barclay]

I must say I agree with most things here, but not the hats indoors thing, unless it's in church or while eating, I would hold doors for anyone, regardless of gender, giving up seats is fine for elderly folk or pregnant women (or of course anyone that's disabled), but no-one else, plus I've never got to grips with the "pretend" uncle/auntie thing, I happen to think it's a wee bit silly and possibly not a little confusing for the wean.