Dress Codes

[kc8ufv]

If we're on the subject of rules and laws and such, you might want to read this:

http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#176

Basically, it's against the rules to use the US flag for apparel. This rule is (obviously) not enforced. But if we're talking about national dress, and pertinent codes that would allow or restrict it, this seems to be one that would most definitely restrict it.

Though my post was entirely a joke, if you look carefully at it, you will notice I went down a level of government flags...

[Peter Crowe]

Exactly! What words (language) do we use to define culture? There are some folks here making a mighty and futile attempt to do so. Others with a great sense of humour seem to be just enjoying the futility that the others are demonstrating.

Sorry folks - I do find some of it rather silly, only because it will never really be successful.

Exactly Bill! 'Culture' of which language and modes of dress are a part is fluid, dynamic, and follows people wherever they go, comes into contact with other people/cultures and is modified (and modifies) to a greater or lesser extent by said contact. It is a rich and wonderful multilayered thing (I won't do the overdone warp and weft punning analagy, other than to say I'm aware of it). All I ask of anyone wearing the kilt (especially in it's traditional form) is to remember it has significant meaning for a great many people and to comport themselves accordingly. ith:

[Mike_Oettle]

While I bow to Jock Scot’s superior knowledge in matters regarding kilts and tartans, I do find it odd (and I mean this with no disrespect) that while insisting that the kilt is Highland dress (as opposed to general Scottish wear), in his military career he served with an English regiment.
To quote the King of Siam: “Is a puzzlement!”
Regards,
Mike

[creagdhubh]

Stepping back for a second and looking at this objectively, it seems a tad backwards to suggest that the wearing of the kilt is more related to national citizenship than heritage, family lineage, or culture. Let's compare a chap who is descended from 10 generations of MacPhersons, for example, who was born in Scotland but emigrated to Canada within the last 6 months, to another chap who was born in Pakistan and emigrated to Scotland within the last 6 months.

Going strictly by national citizenship, I can see how the Pakistani is entitled to wear the kilt as his brand-new "national attire" where the ex-pat Scot is not. But does it really make any sense? If I were to invite the ex-pat Scot to a party and ask him to wear his national attire, I would be expecting him to wear a kilt, regardless of what his passport says. And likewise, if I invited the Pakistani to a party and asked him to wear his national attire, I would expect him to show up wearing the garb of his homeland, which fits his language, identity, religion, etc.

This all seems a little crazy, tying the definition of national attire to citizenship, without any other qualification such as culture or lineage. I guess what I'm saying is that the very concept of "national attire" is outdated or inadequate, and makes no provision for immigration, expatriation, etc.

With that said, though, I'd love to emigrate to Scotland. But your government has made it virtually impossible for someone in my position to do so.

Being a Macpherson, you closely told the story of my great-grandfather! Except he later emigrated to America from Canada, and this all obviosuly didn't happen within the last 6 months! Haha!

Again, well stated, Tobus.

Cheers,

[AFS1970]

I think there is another possible variant here, and that is the difference between National Dress and Highland Dress. As a natural born American citizen with roots in Scotland although so far back that I have never met a living relative from there, I could not justify wearing a kilt (no matter how formal) as part of my national dress. However if the invitation were to include Highland Dress, I would think it entirely up to me to wear the kilt or not.

As for a stars and stripes tartan, well there is the American Bicentennial which was later adapted to the American Saint Andrew's. I would love to get a kilt made in either, although I would prefer the original. I posted about that a while back, and have found that it will need to be a custom weave, as nobody seems to sell it anymore. However from what I have read the tartan was a gift to the people of the USA from the people of Scotland, thus in effect making it our national tartan, although not specifically making tartan our national dress.

Which brings to mind another question. Here is America we have several states with official tartans, at least one city has one, and I know of several professional tartans. Most if not all of these are registered with Scottish entities. It seems that if Scotland is the deciding country, that their acceptance and issue of registrations of foreign tartans is at least lending some credence to tartan as transcending its country of origin.

[Mike_Oettle]

AFS 1970 wrote: “Here in America we have several states with official tartans, at least one city has one, and I know of several professional tartans.”

Taking the official and unofficial tartans together, there are more than 40 US states with their own setts, and a great number of tartans for smaller districts. Offhand I cannot recall which cities (aside from New York) have their own tartans, but in New York State there are about half a dozen district tartans, while several other states also have a handful each. (So far there is no agreed tartan for New York State, but that might change very soon.)
Canada is even more a country of tartan. Quebec has an unofficial tartan (unlike all the other provinces, which have official setts), but it also has a plethora of district tartans. In fact, only the prairie provinces are thin on the ground with district tartans. There are numerous district setts for eastern Canada and British Columbia. Even Nunavut has not one, but two unofficial tartans.
Regards,
Mike

[JSFMACLJR]

While I bow to Jock Scot’s superior knowledge in matters regarding kilts and tartans, I do find it odd (and I mean this with no disrespect) that while insisting that the kilt is Highland dress (as opposed to general Scottish wear), in his military career he served with an English regiment.
To quote the King of Siam: “Is a puzzlement!”
Regards,
Mike

Mike,
Jock can speak for himself, if he chooses, but surely he served in a British regiment?

[McMurdo]

AFS 1970 wrote: “Here in America we have several states with official tartans, at least one city has one, and I know of several professional tartans.”

Taking the official and unofficial tartans together, there are more than 40 US states with their own setts, and a great number of tartans for smaller districts. Offhand I cannot recall which cities (aside from New York) have their own tartans, but in New York State there are about half a dozen district tartans, while several other states also have a handful each. (So far there is no agreed tartan for New York State, but that might change very soon.)
Canada is even more a country of tartan. Quebec has an unofficial tartan (unlike all the other provinces, which have official setts), but it also has a plethora of district tartans. In fact, only the prairie provinces are thin on the ground with district tartans. There are numerous district setts for eastern Canada and British Columbia. Even Nunavut has not one, but two unofficial tartans.
Regards,
Mike

On top of all that Canada's official tartan is the Maple Leaf tartan, it was recently made official. Matt even wrote an article on it for the Scottish Banner, and they used this photo of me for the article.


Here is a link with information on the Canadian tartans
http://www.cassoc.ca/cantartans.htm

[CMcG]

On top of all that Canada's official tartan is the Maple Leaf tartan, it was recently made official. Matt even wrote an article on it for the Scottish Banner, and they used this photo of me for the article.

Ah, Mr. McMurdo! That picture makes me think of yet another side to the kilt as national attire by citizens of countries other than Scotland. You are a daily kilt wearer and a Canadian, no? How strange would it be for you to not wear the kilt to a national attire party?

[McMurdo]

Ah, Mr. McMurdo! That picture makes me think of yet another side to the kilt as national attire by citizens of countries other than Scotland. You are a daily kilt wearer and a Canadian, no? How strange would it be for you to not wear the kilt to a national attire party?

If Jock Scot were my host I would wear my dinner jacket, however that brings up the question is a tuxedo National Attire, and if it is would it be acceptable as Canadian National Attire? Given the history I'd say it is not Canadian National Dress, so that brings up the question what is Canadian National Attire?