The Kilt's use in Irish Nationalism

[Blackrose87]

I believe that HKJRB623's reference to "the Irish" also refers to "Americans of Irish-descent in America", although I hope he'll chime in and clarify.

My contention is that most Americans are wholly unaware of Padraig Pearse and the use of the kilt in Irish Revivalism. Most folks who first come to XMarks seem to be unaware of this, as well, and have some vague notion that the early Irish wore the kilt in the current, Scottish manner.

Maybe this is the case, although I would hope not. I would hope that if Americans claim to be wearing kilts to honour their Irish heritage, they would have at least looked into some of the history or how the kilt is seen in modern day Ireland.

[davidlpope]

Maybe this is the case, although I would hope not. I would hope that if Americans claim to be wearing kilts to honour their Irish heritage, they would have at least looked into some of the history or how the kilt is seen in modern day Ireland.

I wish this were the case, but I think you'd be quite surprised at how little thought goes into these things in the US.

Don't even get me started on similar foolishness concerning American Civil War reenactors and their misplaced fascination with kilts!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Perhaps it was not so much the amount of people who went kilted as the impact they had?

Mark Twain once observed that naked people have little or no impact on history, and the same applies to kilted Irishmen. All 87 of them, and that includes Pearce and the boys at St. Enda's!

I can very much understand Highland Scots wearing the kilt as it is an organic-- no, a genuine part of their cultural heritage. By extension I can even appreciate the rest of Scotland embracing the kilt as representative of a very romantic period in their national history.

I can also understand how, in a country like America where people sometimes try desperately to exert their individuality, ethnic groups that lack a unique form of national dress can feel disadvantaged when it comes time to play at "dress up", and others don kimonos, dashikis, a fez, or even a kilt, and they are left wearing "ordinary" clothes.

But it seems very false, to me at least, when people with no historical or cultural link to the native costume of other peoples adopt that garb and attempt to justify it as their own. It's rather as if they are ashamed of who they are, culturally, simply because they lack a suitable mode of dress to express their ethnicity, and so they latch on to something that is, at the very wildest stretch of the imagination, not even remotely related to themselves, merely for the sake of social self-aggrandizement.

Which is a pity. Because in trying so hard to be something they are not, they loose sight of who they really are. But then, perhaps it is because the vast majority of the Irish know who they are that they don't feel the need to dress up like Scotsmen?

[Blackrose87]

Mark Twain once observed that naked people have little or no impact on history, and the same applies to kilted Irishmen. All 87 of them, and that includes Pearce and the boys at St. Enda's!

I can very much understand Highland Scots wearing the kilt as it is an organic-- no, a genuine part of their cultural heritage. By extension I can even appreciate the rest of Scotland embracing the kilt as representative of a very romantic period in their national history.

I can also understand how, in a country like America where people sometimes try desperately to exert their individuality, ethnic groups that lack a unique form of national dress can feel disadvantaged when it comes time to play at "dress up", and others don kimonos, dashikis, a fez, or even a kilt, and they are left wearing "ordinary" clothes.

But it seems very false, to me at least, when people with no historical or cultural link to the native costume of other peoples adopt that garb and attempt to justify it as their own. It's rather as if they are ashamed of who they are, culturally, simply because they lack a suitable mode of dress to express their ethnicity, and so they latch on to something that is, at the very wildest stretch of the imagination, not even remotely related to themselves, merely for the sake of social self-aggrandizement.

Which is a pity. Because in trying so hard to be something they are not, they loose sight of who they really are. Perhaps it is because the vast majority of the Irish know who they are that they don't feel the need to dress up like Scotsmen?

You seem to completely exclude Ulster-Scots from your reasoning. While maintaining a close link to thier Scottish heritage, they definitely identify themselves as Ulstermen, and Northern Irish.

To be honest, outside Ulster-Scots nobody wears a kilt in Ireland.

I do not identify myself as such, even though my fathers family would. But I like wearing my kilt, and do not really have to explain why I should be allowed to wear it. However, having spent a quarter of my life in Scotland, I feel I have more a right than an 5th generation American who's had a holiday to Edinburgh.

[MrShoe]

As an Man of Irish heritage I should love this time of year, but not around here.This topic has gotten off track every year. I should know better than read any thread that has the word Irish and Kilt in it. I was not going to comment on this thread and will probably regret it after I hit submit.....

Mark Twain once observed that naked people have little or no impact on history, and the same applies to kilted Irishmen. All 87 of them, and that includes Pearce and the boys at St. Enda's!

Really there were only 87 people in Ireland to EVER wear the kilt? Really? Just because you don't have record of it. That's right...it there is no picture than it didn't happen.

And of those 87, NONE of them had any more than a little impact of history? Since they are being talked about know they must have had some, but just not enough. I would think that there are many Nationalist that would disagree with you. Or is it that they had little impact on what history you care about.

I won't say anymore, but will enjoy wearing my Irish Saffron Kilt as I walk in our Saint Patrick's Day parade to display my pride in my Irish heritage. Even though I have little right as a 5th generation Irish American.

Now I leave you all to continue your discussion.

[denmcdough]

do not identify myself as such, even though my fathers family would. But I like wearing my kilt, and do not really have to explain why I should be allowed to wear it. However, having spent a quarter of my life in Scotland, I feel I have more a right than an 5th generation American who's had a holiday to Edinburgh.

What does this mean??? Really, I can't follow your reasoning. Listen, you're getting yourself in a ruffled mess. Anyone has the right to wear a kilt, 5th genertaion American or someone from Holland, Norway, South Africa, Poland or Lower Slabovia. Isn't this forum about anyone wanting to wear a kilt? You guys get tooooooo touchy when it comes to kilts, nationalism, and all that crap!!! I wear the kilt cause I can, and it's cool. Plain and simple!

Now, if we can, let's drop all this crap about Irish Nationalism, Irish wearing kilts, and who has the right to wear one, and all the other BS. Some of you guys don't know when to let it go!! Nuff said!!! Geez!!!!!

[Blackrose87]

Now, if we can, let's drop all this crap about Irish Nationalism, Irish wearing kilts, and who has the right to wear one, and all the other BS. Some of you guys don't know when to let it go!! Nuff said!!! Geez!!!!!

erm this is the history section??
The original question was about the history of the attempt to popularise the kilt by Irish Republicans, such as Pearse, at the start of the 20th century.
I can't see how people could have a problem with this question. This is a historical fact, so this was being discussed along with why their attempts failed. Their actual politics were not being discussed, as people my have opposing views on them. The discussion was about the history of the kilt during his period.

[denmcdough]

And I repeat myself.

[Blackrose87]

And I repeat myself.

So you're saying that the history of the kilt shouldn't be discussed? On a kilt website, in the history section?
I cant see you problem with this

[davidlpope]

You seem to completely exclude Ulster-Scots from your reasoning. While maintaining a close link to thier Scottish heritage, they definitely identify themselves as Ulstermen, and Northern Irish.

To be honest, outside Ulster-Scots nobody wears a kilt in Ireland.

The Northern Irish/Ulster Scots/Scots Irish who settled this part of America were the descendants of Presbyterian Lowlanders and Borderers who didn't wear the kilt. They tended to view the kilt-wearing Highland Scots as uncivilized and looked down on both their language, Scots Gaelic, and their religion, Catholicism or Episcopalianism. I'm a bit surprised that Ulstermen see the kilt as an expression of their type of Scottishness. Perplexing...

I do not identify myself as such, even though my fathers family would. But I like wearing my kilt, and do not really have to explain why I should be allowed to wear it. However, having spent a quarter of my life in Scotland, I feel I have more a right than an 5th generation American who's had a holiday to Edinburgh.

Agreed. As I posted before, I'm always curious why folks aren't content to say "I like to wear kilts" or "I like to play the bagpipes" and leave it at that. It's the erroneous, illogical, and historically false "justifications" of one's "right" to wear a kilt that I find tiresome and unnecessary.