Assistance with livery colors for clans????????

[JSFMACLJR]

MMofR, Thanks for that! I believe you've inadvertently solved something I was wondering about as well.

When we attended the Cameron Clan gathering at Achnacarry in 2009, we noticed around the fields or during the parade(s) several shields, flags and placards being held aloft on poles and such. They were in the Cameron colors of yellow and red but bore simply five alternating vertical stripes (3 yellow, 2 red) with no symbols or other graphic elements.

At the time I thought it was simple decoration or window-dressing for the day but I see now that it must have been the Chief's livery being shown by the clansfolk.

Live and learn. Thanks!

Are you sure they were vertical stripes? Lochiel's coat of arms bears a shield of four red bars and three gold bars, horizontally. It certainly wouldn't be odd if his livery colours were used as decoration, but any sort of banner of red and gold vertical stripes might be confusing.

[davidlpope]

The Plantagenets were so named because they put sprigs of plantain in their hats by way of being a plant badge.

It may be a UK v. USA thing, but a plantain here is a type of a banana- the origin of Plantagenet (perhaps dubious) references a sprig of common broom...

[Paul Henry]

It may be a UK v. USA thing, but a plantain here is a type of a banana- the origin of Plantagenet (perhaps dubious) references a sprig of common broom...

Yes indeed it's usually thought of "plant genista" which is common broom, as the origin of Plantagenet name , not plantain ( which is a small weed ( Plantago major )in the UK, but we also know it as of the banana family, usually for cooking). There is jewellery and paintings where the broom flower is used as an identifying image of the Plantagenets. Have a look at the Wilton Diptych where there is a chain of gold broom seed pods

[Chas]

That is the whole thing about history - it's old!

No one was updating their Facebook status or tweeting about what just happened. If we are lucky, events were written about while memories were still fresh. The Venerable Bede (often called the Father of English History) wrote about events that happened 100 years before he was born - things his grandfather had been told about when he was a boy.

Even today, at an Oscar Ceremony, nobody writes paragraphs about what the waiters were wearing. Throughout history the common people were seen as expendable. Nobody cared about them and certainly not enough to write about what they wore.

So, written accounts are of very little use to us. Let us try something visual.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...yeux_31109.jpg

Click on the strip to expand it. Apart from the mounted soldiers, who are wearing chain mail over their clothes, everyone else is wearing a multitude of colours.

I do not know when the banana/plantain was first discovered and named, but the House of Plantagenet produced 14 kings between the years 1154 and 1485. So at least seven years before Columbus bumped into the continent.

Regards

Chas

[CameronCat]

Are you sure they were vertical stripes? Lochiel's coat of arms bears a shield of four red bars and three gold bars, horizontally. It certainly wouldn't be odd if his livery colours were used as decoration, but any sort of banner of red and gold vertical stripes might be confusing.

JSFMAC...
Aye, here's me red-faced. I went back and reviewed the pics; horizontal was by far the correct use. The few vertical ones we saw were simply being held sideways. There was some variance in the number of bars in use though-- although there were (as you cite) 4 red + 3 gold, I also counted 4+4 and 5+4.

Also, although some were plain, other striped flags had a targe with crossed Lochaber axes on them.

Sorry, didn't mean to divert this most informative discussion.

Thanks.