Wool Flat Cap... a no-no with a kilt?

[SlackerDrummer]

I think today even faux pas is a bit of a stretch. The same way wingtip shoes have made their way into modern business attire, so have button-down collared shirts (at least in the United States and probably Canada). While they may not be considered as elegant or classy as pointed-collar or spread-collar shirts, I am of the opinion that they no longer fall under the category of "wrong". Clothing styles and fashion are ever-changing and ever-evolving, which is one reason it is often hard to nail down "traditional". Some men, perhaps not a majority or even in great numbers, have been wearing button-down collars with suits since at least the 1930s.

[ScotFree]

Someone posted something recently in a rather brilliant summation, wherein he said "A man's hat is a personal thing, DON'T MESS WITH IT!" or something to that effect. The bottom line is that no matter what you're wearing you're going to look like a tourist and probably spotted as a Yank as well to the locals. They can always tell. Just because they dress a certain way in Scotland, well, you're not a Scot. You're an American in Scotland ... never mind any ancestry. If flat caps are popular in the US, then wear one. You are one. Blue jeans are an American thing. It has spread all over the world. Does that mean that every country that now wears blue jeans has to wear them just like Americans? Of course not. They'll make it their own. Kilts have come to America ... and Americans are wearing them ... surprise ... like Americans. I am amongst the rarity here that thinks that a flat cap, a grey or green tweed jacket, or nice wool knit sweater (translation into English: Jumper), and a flat cap look rather smashing. I'm born and bread in the midwest US. Frankly I think I'd look, at best ridiculous, at worst a poser, wearing a Glengarry or Balmoral as an everyday headwear choice, with or without a kilt. I can comfortably pull off a flat cap no problem. I've worn 'em on and off all my life. Besides, it's an eminently practical hat. It's comfortable, stows away easy when not needed and keeps the sun out of your eyes (assuming you get to see any whilst in Scotland). It has the added advantage of being low profile, and not flashy.

Bottom line: Wear what you want and are comfortable in. Nothing's going to prevent you from standing out no matter what. I can spot someone in Chicago, even wearing jeans and a t-shirt, as a tourist a mile away. You won't be any different. I have a difficult time believing that anyone's really going to care one way or the other what you wear on your head, what shoes, you have, what your shirt collar looks like or what color socks you've got. As long as you look presentable, you'll look fine. I think its worse trying too hard to look like something you're not. That will stand out more than anything.

My £0.02

Steve-

[OC Richard]

The "flat caps with kilts" thing is just another example of how we invent "tradition" as we go along.

No examples of them in The Highlanders of Scotland at which time Glengarries were the most popular hat with the kilt. Obviously by 1900 flat caps were commonly worn with kilts. Then by the 1930s they seem to have gone out of style again. Now it seems they're making something of a comeback. It's just the way things work.

Just a couple days ago an elderly Scottish woman lectured me that the only time pipers should wear tartan hose is with Prince Charlies. I let it go, but such an idea is absurd, seeing that 100 years ago Prince Charlies hadn't been invented yet and tartan hose had been the standard sort of hose for two hundred years at least. You would think, from her attitude, that Prince Charlies and tartan hose had been invented together at the beginning of time.

BTW I myself wouldn't wear a button-down collar shirt with a suit nor with a black Argyll jacket... looks too informal to me. With a Day tweed jacket yes.

[Lyle1]

Bottom line: Wear what you want and are comfortable in.
Steve-

Exactly! If it makes you feel more secure to wear what you think someone else thinks you should wear, go with that, and if you are happy with a more individual look, go with that. Who knows, maybe in a fifty or a hundred years, people will copy your look and call it "traditional"!

[BCAC]

To quickly jump in on the button down collar thingy, here in France, unless you can afford to have bespoke shirts made, then it's getting more and more difficult to find shirts offered for sale that are NOT button down collars. There is a huge different in off the peg sizes too. I recently bought two shirts from the same shop, the same make, the same size and at the same time and one shirt is tight around the collar and the other is just too big all over. It's a shame that you can't try on shirts before you buy.

[Spartan Tartan]

Here in the States, I find collars without buttons all the time. Mostly at Mens Warehouse. Fyi...

oh, and you can try on the shirt before buying too.

[sailortats]

When I was in banking back in the 60s and 70s I almost always wore a button down collar shirt with a tie with my sport coat or suit. In those days bankers always wore a tie and jacket unlike today where they were tee shirts and jeans. The button down collar is a much neater look than the spread collar where the ends of the collar could sometimes end up on top of your jacket. I still like the looks of a button down shirt and have been known to wear one with my kilt just as often as I wear a spread collar with it.

[Jack Daw]

Why concern yourself about being found out as a foreign tourist in Scotland? On my first trip in 2003, I happily wore my button-down drip-dry shirts and Levi jeans in the Highlands and left my kilts at home. Frankly, even my haircut seemed different enough from the natives. Regardless, no matter what you wear, once you open your mouth and speak, your cover will be blown. The only time I was made a bit uncomfortable was when a Glaswegian (clearly away from home in Taynuilt) gave me the business/busted my chops at the nearby watering hole. I knew better than to pretend to understand whatever he was saying. Despite their foreign rituals, the natives are quite friendly.

[ScotFree]

I'm afraid I don't get this button down collar thing. I can't see how its any more or less formal than a regular collar shirt. Until reading this thread, I have always thought that it would be dressier and more expensive due to the extra fiddling by putting button holes and buttons. Apparently, the fashion afficionados sayeth differently. When I shop for shirts, usually at mid-level department stores like Sears or Kohls, I don't really see that many button down collars (perhaps that should have been my clue). Next time I go shirt shopping I will have to keep that in mind.

[Braw Cathairneach]

OK we may be talking at trans-Atlantic cross purposes here so, by button down shirt I mean a shirt with the collar tips buttoned down by a single button on each side(end)of the collar. So just in case we are talking about the same thing, we usually wear shirts without collars buttoned down and no buttons or button holes in the collar to do so. Make no mistake we have button down collars, but would probably be in a minority for general wear and probably quite unusual with the kilt.

I’ve a vague recollection that button down collars originated in the UK as a remedy for taming collar points during strenuous equestrian activities. If the recollection is correct than it would seem that you’d just be returning the custom to its origin.

It does seem a bit more difficult to tame the kilt during strenuous equestrian activities than it is to tame the collar points. That’s probably not a pretty image to conjure up…