Military Box-Pleats: some questions for the rabble.

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 13th August 12, 01:26 PM

I'm in the middle of doing a box pleated kilt from 6 yards of cloth right now. I just finished sewing in all the pleats but have not done anything else yet. I think this is a good opportunity for me to take some photos to show how this is done. It's also good because at 6 yards, it is half way between the original historic box pleated kilt of four yards, and the more modern regimental box pleated kilts, which would contain closer to 7 or 8 yards of cloth.

Stay tuned....

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 13th August 12, 03:29 PM

Ok, I have uploaded some pictures of this work in progress in a new thread in the Kiltmaker's Tips section. Check it out.
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-making-75409/

**Joe I** · 14th August 12, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome

The link you provided appears broken, but one can find the page by going to the Keltoi link in the advertisers section and finding the military box pleated kilt in the menu. This is a military (regimental) box pleated kilt, and NOT the barrel pleated kilt described in Bob Martin's book.

If the kilt you have looks like this, then it is a regimental box pleated kilt. If the kilt you have had the pleats running in the opposite direction of a normal kilt and appears to have a twist at the hip, then it is a barrel pleated kilt.

Right, and that's what I was talking about, but I digress.

**The Wizard of BC** · 15th August 12, 05:37 PM

I'm sure Matt is correct in his description of his asymmetrical box pleats.
But this does not seem to describe what I see when I look at the Military Box Pleated kilts in the Royal BC Museums' collection. These kilt are WWI era kilts from the Seaforth Highlanders.

Because I cannot get access to the Museum's kilts this month I thought I would pleat up a section of fabric I have here in the shop to show you what I'm seeing.

Here is a section of the Leatherneck Tartan pleated as you would expect in a standard knife pleated kilt. This is pleated to the yellow stripe. The pleats point towards the wearers right side.

And here is the same section looking up at the hem. (I have highlighted the selvedge with chalk to make it a bit easier to see the folds in the fabric.)

Now, I have re-pleated this same section of fabric but have the pleats pointing towards the wearers left side.

Here is how the hem looks now.

In these next pics I simply flopped the inside of these pleats over till they go in the same direction as the pleats in the first pic. The outer edge of the pleats still point towards the wearers left.

And here is the hem.

I think this illustrates pretty well why Military Box Pleats are sometimes referred to as being folded back on themselves.

To my eye this type of pleating is quite different from the asymmetrical box pleat that Matt is describing. Maybe Matt can chime in here and clarify if we are doing the same thing but describing it differently.

**slohairt** · 15th August 12, 07:07 PM

What you are describing, Steve, is exactly how I was taught to make them. While the method Matt describes will produce a somewhat similar effect, the construction details are obviously quite different.

I don't normally do on-line pictorials, but here's a quick demonstration using a scrap piece of 16 oz. Irish National:

1) I've decided to pleat this using the narrow gold line within the green.

2) Fold the pleat along what will become the right side of the facing. (In this case, exactly where the green meets the narrow black stripe.)

3) Fold the pleat back onto itself revealing the gold line initially selected. Fold the pleat again on the left side where the green meets the narrow black stripe.

4) Select the next pleat and Repeat Step 2

5) Repeat Step 3

6) Sew the pleats to each other and through the backing cloth as well, creating a flat-felled seam.

7) Here is the bottom of an Argyll and Sutherland kilt I made in 18 oz. cloth. You will see that the bottom is the same as Steve has shown in his example.

While I just used pins in my quick mock-up, ordinarily one would bast the entire pleat length vertically before sewing. Once finished, the rest of the construction is identical to that of your typical high-yardage knife-pleated kilt.

I hope this helps everyone. As I said, I'm not much given to tutorials, but there seems to be a great deal of misunderstanding about this style of pleating.

**slohairt** · 15th August 12, 07:11 PM

'Rarely seen' in the civvie world, Richard. Obviously not in the army, as several of our regiments wear them here in Canada.

**LitTrog** · 15th August 12, 07:58 PM

Thank you, Mr. Hart.

**Downunder Kilt** · 15th August 12, 08:13 PM

This has been a great thread, thanks to LitTrog for starting it and to all the contributors who have added such a wealth of knowledge

and

to you all

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 16th August 12, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC

To my eye this type of pleating is quite different from the asymmetrical box pleat that Matt is describing. Maybe Matt can chime in here and clarify if we are doing the same thing but describing it differently.

To my eye, Steve, your pics show the exact same type of pleat. I'm not sure I understand what the difference is you are seeing. You and I may have taken a different route to get there, but we ended up in the same place. When I am done with this kilt I will have to get a "bottom up" photo from the same angle as yours here, and you'll see the only difference is that the pleats in the six yard kilt are a little wider.

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 16th August 12, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by slohairt

What you are describing, Steve, is exactly how I was taught to make them. While the method Matt describes will produce a somewhat similar effect, the construction details are obviously quite different.

...
I hope this helps everyone. As I said, I'm not much given to tutorials, but there seems to be a great deal of misunderstanding about this style of pleating.

Thanks, John. The method you show is different from what I do, and I believe would be easier to manage when using a full eight yards to make a kilt. As I told Steve, we may take different routes but we are ending up in the same place.

I just want to underscore the fact that using different construction methods in kilt making is nothing new and does not really have any impact on defining a pleat style one way or another. I'm sure Lady Chrystal makes Kingussie pleated kilts differently than I do, but they are still Kingussie pleats. Kilt makers doubtless have different methods for making standard knife pleated kilts, but we don't try to subcategorize these into different pleating styles.

My original point in this thread is that "box pleated" and "military box pleated" are not two distinct types of pleating, but rather the same basic type of pleating made with different amount of cloth. A "military box pleated kilt" is simply what a box pleated kilt made from eight yards of cloth looks like. The different construction techniques that you, Steve and I have shown are all made necessary because of the amount of cloth. The construction techniques used to make a four yard box pleated kilt won't work (similarly there are different techniques you'd use in making a four yard knife pleated kilt vs. an eight yard knife pleated kilt).

I hope this thread has been educational for folks, and it doesn't seem too much like crotchety old kiltmakers arguing over unimportant details. :-)