More on Septs

[James the Gilbert]

"Clan Buchanan has occupied the lands surrounding the shores of Loch Lomond since 1225 as a result of a grant by the Earl of Lennox to Sir Absalon of Buchanan in which he is referred to as 'clericus meus', meaning 'my clergyman'. Towards the middle of the 13th century Gilbert seneschal to the Earl of Lennox obtained part of the lands of Buchanan in Stirlingshire and took his surname from the lands called Buchanan.^{[10]"
Maybe this is why.And for good reason....Still searching.}

[Mike_Oettle]

Hi, James –
while the name Gilbert is quite definitely of Germanic origin, that is not to say that it cannot be French, English or Scottish. Many French families have surnames that were originally Germanic, which is understandable because the French nation even takes its name from a Germanic tribe, the Franks.
(The nation now called French were Celtic-speaking Gauls who, as a consequence of Roman conquest, took to speaking the Romance tongue.)
The name arrived in the British Isles by way of the army that accompanied William of Normandy in 1066, but that army had various origins – some were actually Norman, others were Flemish (usually from families that had settled in Normandy), and yet others were from other parts.
What is important is that the name became English (in the sense of the English language, whether in England or in Scotland), and that many families that are now thoroughly Scottish settled north of the border during the Middle Ages, having come from England or further afield.
Which clan you belong to is a matter of your family’s history in Scotland, but don’t become over-anxious about links to England, France or Germany.
Regards,
Mike

PS: The modern French pronunciation of the name is Zhil-bear, but it could well have sounded much more like its English form in earlier times.

[McElmurry]

From Surnames of Ireland by MacLysaght

Gilbert-This name has long been prominent in Leinster, Gilbertstown is now found as a place-name in five counties--two (Louth and Westmeath) in the sixteenth century.

MacLysaght usually says if a name is Scottish, English, or Norman if he knows. In this case he does not render an opinion. I think we can safely say not Gaelic but perhaps in time more Irish than the Irish. Certainly prominent or at least prolific to have five towns of the name.

[MacSpadger]

From Surnames of Ireland by MacLysaght

Gilbert-This name has long been prominent in Leinster, Gilbertstown is now found as a place-name in five counties--two (Louth and Westmeath) in the sixteenth century.

MacLysaght usually says if a name is Scottish, English, or Norman if he knows. In this case he does not render an opinion. I think we can safely say not Gaelic but perhaps in time more Irish than the Irish. Certainly prominent or at least prolific to have five towns of the name.

The amount of placenames may be due to the rather heavyhanded influence of the Englishman Humphrey Gilbert, who was an early "pioneer" of colonisation in Ireland, later known as The Plantations. He confiscated lands occupied by both Gaelic speakers and Hiberno-Norman dynasties in the 16th century, and gave control to settlers from England & Wales. He was made governor of Ulster and served as a member of the Irish parliament. He built many settlements in Ireland. He invaded Leinster in 1569 and captured 30-40 castles in this time. Many Irish were killed in this campaign, including women and children, and it was reported that he was made a knight amidst piles of dead Irish bodies. It's generally believed that the 16th century Irish placenames containing "Gilbert" stem from this rather brutish Devonshire man.

[McElmurry]

The amount of placenames may be due to the rather heavyhanded influence of the Englishman Humphrey Gilbert, who was an early "pioneer" of colonisation in Ireland, later known as The Plantations. He confiscated lands occupied by both Gaelic speakers and Hiberno-Norman dynasties in the 16th century, and gave control to settlers from England & Wales. He was made governor of Ulster and served as a member of the Irish parliament. He built many settlements in Ireland. He invaded Leinster in 1569 and captured 30-40 castles in this time. Many Irish were killed in this campaign, including women and children, and it was reported that he was made a knight amidst piles of dead Irish bodies. It's generally believed that the 16th century Irish placenames containing "Gilbert" stem from this rather brutish Devonshire man.

I thought it might be something like that but I did not know the time period. Just another example of why it is difficult and many times impossible for those of us spread across the globe to go directly from a surname to a clan affiliation with much certainty.

[McElmurry]

Just so James the Gilbert doesn't get the idea I am picking on his name here is a brutish excerpt from a story involving a name very similar to mine.

However, Marlborough also informs us that one Hugh Mac Giolla Mhuire, an Irishman, destroyed the Franciscan church in Carrickfergus prior to 1408, the year in which he was trapped and killed in the very same building by members of the Savage family. The latter were seeking revenge for deaths of their kinsmen, Patrick and his brother Richard, who were murdered in 1404 by one Adam Mac Giolla Mhuire after a ransom of two thousand marks had been paid. Patrick Savage, who previously served as seneschal of Ulster, may well have fallen into the Mac Giolla Mhuires' hands as a result of Sir Walter's defeat and death in the previous year. Richard was apparently acting as a pledge for his brother's ransom. [30]

And the link to the full story,

http://www.icmacentre.ac.uk/soldier/.../April2008.php

[MacSpadger]

Just so James the Gilbert doesn't get the idea I am picking on his name here is a brutish excerpt from a story involving a name very similar to mine.

McElmurry, I think that any of us who look deeply into our family history long enough will find at least one brutish episode. Times were harder then.