Cameron of erracht military kilt

**berend** · 13th October 12, 06:44 AM

Here i am with some new pictures of the cameron kilt.

First: front of the kilt in comparison with the inside and how it has faded
Second: A repair, mended with a thicker wool
Third: the two-sprong buckles and the black top-rim

Although officers were permited to alter there gear, I also think that a sergeant-major could do the same thing bacause of his position within the company (correct me if I'm wrong!).
And I know that pictures of officers during battle, wearing a kilt, would maybe be impossible to find except during 1940. there are lots of other pictures of them wearing kilts behind the front-line, for example during parades, ceremonies and awarding medals. But i have never seen a cameron kilt on these pictures

Question to fighedair: What makes it a 1930-40's kilt to you, is it the colouring?

Greeting rene

**HenryT** · 13th October 12, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Mainer In Exile

I realize that it's not necessary to mention that in 1944, in the battles in Normandy, the Cameronians would have been wearing battle dress (as would the Gordons fighting right slongside them in some of the actions).

But I'm curious, as I've rarely seen photos of Highlanders in a WWII combat theater wearing kilts "outside" of action; not even officers. In fact, for Normandy post D-Day, I can't think of a single instance. Anyone have any pertinent photos or links? I'd be very interested to see them.

Allen

There is this photo, that around the net is titled "Arnhem"

**Jock Scot** · 13th October 12, 09:38 AM

I think, understandably perhaps, that many of you fail to understand that the British military, particularly Officers, have a certain amount of non military and non regulation leeway with their attire when in action and is regarded by some---not all--- Commanding Officers as a necessary eccentricity to get the required results. Our history is littered with such examples.

**Woodsheal** · 13th October 12, 02:43 PM

Peter Allan of the Cameron Highlanders was captured in France in June 1940, and was one of the first officers sent to Colditz Castle. He had his kilt with him into captivity, but who knows if he wore it in combat.

**Mainer In Exile** · 13th October 12, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

Just a slight clarification Allen, but the Cameronians were a Lowland regiment that did not wear the kilt (save the pipes & drums). The Cameron Highlanders did wear the kilt. Given that the Cameronians were named for the Covenanting Presbyterian leader Richard Cameron and his followers, who made up the bulk of the first members of the regiment, it can be somewhat confusing.

Regards,

T.

Yessir, you are of course abolutely correct; and I am now extremely irritated with myself becuase I've made the same error before when discussing specific battles around Caen! Two different brigades, in two different divisions; coincidentally, both the Cameron Highlanders and the Cameronians had a battalion of the Gordons in the same division with them, albeit diferent divisions.

Allen

**Mainer In Exile** · 13th October 12, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by HenryT

There is this photo, that around the net is titled "Arnhem"

Brilliant! Thank you. Let me run that by a couple of folks who lead staff rides to Normandy and see if I can get a precise ID of the location, etc.

Allen

**HenryT** · 13th October 12, 07:24 PM

[QUOTE=Mainer In Exile; Let me run that by a couple of folks who lead staff rides to Normandy and see if I can get a precise ID of the location, etc.

Allen[/QUOTE]

What I always wanted to know was the meaning of the CRA sign in the lower left... i would imagine that would be the major clue of where this photo was taken... and when.

**Downunder Kilt** · 13th October 12, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Mainer In Exile

Brilliant! Thank you. Let me run that by a couple of folks who lead staff rides to Normandy and see if I can get a precise ID of the location, etc.

Allen

Here is a caption that is with the photo on the web
DescriptionTaken on the Utrechtseweg, opposite the junction with the Bredeweg, at 08:00 on Monday 18th September(Market Garden). The kilted Captain James Ogilvie, commander of "D" Squadron The Glider Pilot Regiment talks with an officer whose identity has not been established with certainty. Although the sign in the bottom right indicates that he may be Lieutenant-Colonel Loder-Symonds, the Commander Royal Artillery, it is believed that it is more likely to be the commander of No.1 Wing The Glider Pilot Regiment, Lieutenant-Colonel Iain Murray. Ogilvie drowned whilst attempting to swim the Rhine during the withdrawal on the 25th/26th September.
(rudeerude)

More info - From a WW11 forum, the year is 1944

**Downunder Kilt** · 13th October 12, 08:06 PM

A further article re kilt wearing on active service in 1942
http://scotsatwar.co.uk/printerv/stnazaire.htm

And a photo from the German archives of a wounded soldier after the attack

**Mainer In Exile** · 14th October 12, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by HenryT

What I always wanted to know was the meaning of the CRA sign in the lower left... i would imagine that would be the major clue of where this photo was taken... and when.

As Downunderkilt's post explains, "CRA" is the abbreviation for Commander Royal Artillery. This was a functional office held by the senior artillery officer in British division; Loder-Symonds was indeed the CRA of 1st (BR) Airborne Division for both the Normandy landings and Market-Garden. As a result of his actions in the latter, which won him the DSO, he was promoted to Brigadier, the normal rank for a CRA.

I don't know enough to tell whether the figure in beret is a gunner or not.

Allen