Fly plaid advice.

[OC Richard]

What would make a "fly plaid" in a different tartan from the kilt look odd is that the very purpose was to simulate the appearance of the "great kilt" or "belted plaid"; here's the original garment all in one piece



and when they seperated the kilt into the "little kilt" the army devised a garment called the "belted plaid", worn in Full Dress, to simulate the old great kilt. These "belted plaids" as they have always been called are a rather heavy, complex, and expensive garment, made of three seperate pieces of tartan, and fringed all round with rolled fringe



The modern "fly plaid" is simply a square of tartan with plain fringe and is, more or less, a cheap copy of the traditional "belted plaid".

Anyhow it is seen sometimes, the wearing of full plaids/long plaid in a contrasting tartan, because the long plaid isn't simulating anything. Look close (not at the DM, at the pipers)


and one often sees the odd plaids or semi-cloaks or whatever in USA "Irish" pipe bands of a different fabric than the kilt, but of course these costumes are a c1900 creation

[BBNC]

I just finished reading an interesting bit of Scottish and tartan history. It seems that before the Elizabethan Period, kilts and fly plaids were mixed with no particular attempt at matching (great kilts excepted, of course). Early portraits reportedly show Highlanders wearing whatever colors came to hand. In the Battle of Culloden, units were recognized by the bit of plant material (Bog Laurel for one) stuck in their bonnets, not by the plaid they wore.

Based on this (and they may be wrong), there is no really "proper" highland kilt attire, except the basics of formal, or semi-formal convention. Prince Charles wears black shoes with a brown sporran and belt, so is it really "proper" that everything match, or be of complementary colors?

Having said that, I agree that matching and complementary colors present the best appearance overall, but if one is comfortable with what he has on, shouldn't that be the primary criteria?

The following website was what I read.

http://www.scottish-wedding-dreams.com/tartans.htm

[Chas]

(and they may be wrong),

I won't speak for the rest, but their ideas about heraldry are very strange, to say the least.

Regards

Chas

[Downunder Kilt]

Queen Elizabeth I's reign was 1558–1603 (The Elizabethan period) and as such belted plaids were the only highland kilt (1594 was the first documented mention of the belted plaid) There were no fly plaids as we know them today, there was no little kilt. I can't imagine that there were formal and day belted plaids at that time. I really don't think that the website you refer to, has too much in the way of documented facts, more romanticised wishing than anything

[Gryphon noir]

George M. Stephen.jpg

Here is an example of a plaid of a different tartan being worn with a kilt. I believe both are Gordon tartans, but they do appear to be different. The uniform could possibly be connected with the Forfar Militia, circa 1886.

[TheOfficialBren]

George M. Stephen.jpg

Here is an example of a plaid of a different tartan being worn with a kilt. I believe both are Gordon tartans, but they do appear to be different. The uniform could possibly be connected with the Forfar Militia, circa 1886.

Actually, they are the same tartan. Look again. See the double lines on the fly plaid? They correspond with the kilt.
This photo is very old and photos from that period are often difficult subjects for the purpose at hand. Easily mistaken, though.

I second David's opinion regarding fly plaids and also about "matchy-matchy." He is one of the beacons of AHCD (American Highland Civilian Dress).

[TheOfficialBren]

Accidental double posting.

[OC Richard]

True indeed that that writer seems to be mixing up what we would call a "Laird's Plaid" and a "Piper's Plaid".

The Laird's Plaid is a length of tartan folded and placed on one shoulder. A modern Piper's Plaid (called a "long plaid" in the old days) is pleated, with the pleats sewn in, and worn tightly wrapped around the body.

This distinction though is a modern one; piper's plaids in the old days weren't formally pleated but merely bunched around the body



and what's more it can be seen in The Highlanders of Scotland that at that time there wasn't a distinction between the Laird's and piper's plaid... many of the men are wearing something in between, a length of tartan loosely draped around the body

[OC Richard]

I just finished reading an interesting bit of Scottish and tartan history. It seems that before the Elizabethan Period, kilts and fly plaids were mixed with no particular attempt at matching (great kilts excepted, of course). Early portraits reportedly show Highlanders wearing whatever colors came to hand. In the Battle of Culloden...

Let's hold on a minute... you're mixing up various time periods, seperated by hundreds of years.

If by "Elizabethan period" you mean c1600, there was no such thing as a "fly plaid" and in fact we don't have any portraits or clear depictions of how Highlanders dressed at that time; we do have a woodcut from 1641 showing the various ways the Great Kilt or Belted Plaid was worn.

The Great Kilt wasn't seperated into two seperate garments until sometime during the 18th century; experts have gone back and forth, but in any case by 1800 the Highland regiments were wearing Little Kilts and "belted plaids" to simulate the look of the old Great Kilt.

I must emphasize that the "belted plaid" was a nonfunctional thing the sole purpose of which was to simulate the appearance of the old Great Kilt, therefore it was always in the same tartan as the kilt. On the other hand the long plaid, wrapped around the body, was a seperate garment and was often of a different tartan.

In any case, if you're seriously interested in the history of Highland Dress, that wedding planning site is of no use.

Rather you should read books on the subject which contain genuine research and give all their sources. My go-to books are

Old Irish & Highland Dress by HF McClintock (for traditional Irish dress, and it's the best overview of the original sources for early Highland Dress)

The Uniforms & History of the Scottish Regiments by Major R Money Barnes (great information about the evolution of Scottish military dress)

[David Thorpe]

"This guy" has some problems of inaccuracy. The plaid "simply folded and... ...worn hanging straight down over either shoulder" is a day plaid, sometimes called a laird's plaid, but most definitely not a piper's plaid, which by the way is usually pleated -- not folded.
It should be no surprise that he also advocates the practice of wearing different tartans together -- just one additional faux pas.

On one very unique occasion, I wore a plaid of a different tartan from my kilt. The kilt was my clan tartan and the plaid was actually a scarf of my mother's, in her clan tartan. The occasion was her funeral. The point here is that if you do choose to wear two different tartans together, it should be for a very important and meaningful reason. People who know proper THCD will wonder at best, and think you ignorant and/or foolish at worst, even if they do not ask.

THCD is very conservative by American standards, and is decidedly not about the bling, or how much costume you can hang on your body at one time. Whatever you do with it, do it with as much class as you can muster, with respect for a very proud and worthy tradition, or kindly don't do it at all.