A question.

[Tobus]

At the risk of wading into this controversy, it appears once again that Rule #11 has been a constant source of problems. Especially since certain weapons are part and parcel of Highland attire. The rule itself seems to be written as delicately as it can be, considering the past history of issues relating to weapons discussions. But the problem is, as mentioned, with enforcement. This idea that no rules will be enforced unless a member complains will naturally lead to only selective enforcement. One poster can freely discuss his weapon project while another will be quickly shut down, and it depends solely on whether some anonymous complainant decides to report it. This seems patently unfair to those who wish to discuss their kilt-related items. They cannot know whether they'll be mod-slapped or not, since it's the membership (and not the mods) who initiates the process.

[Father Bill]

Tobus, you're right as far as you go, and that is that if somebody does complain, the moderators may still choose to say, "No, this is not really and truly a violation." More than that, it's by a voting process in which each moderator has a say. In this way, should a complainant pass something on, the moderators' role is to decide whether the compaint is justified.

I have also on occasion sent in a report, not because something was a violation, but because tempers were flaring far out of control and I thought that the moderators might want to just moderate the situation a bit more closely for a while. In effect, I trust this body of men and women who have been selected by their peers based on the online personality and restraint they have demonstrated. In those very few cases I've not been making a complaint, just watching for the characteristic kindliness of this forum.

Bill+

[Chas]

Let us not forget that the moderators are also members. They do not hang in a wardrobe like and old raincoat and only brought out when needed. If they see something that they believe is offensive or an infringement of the rules, of course, they bring it to the other mods attention.

Regards

Chas

[Steve Ashton]

On behalf of the entire staff I would like to thank you all for your contributions, insights and participation in this thread so far.
It is hoped that during the last 5 days all those who wish to participate have had the opportunity to do so.


As I stated yesterday, it is the procedure in the Moderators section, to insure discussions do not drag on indefinitely, that we set a time limit on discussions.

As this is a holiday weekend for many of our members and staff we will temporarily wrap up discussion on this thread. Starting Monday we will give the staff 5 days to review and digest all that has been said here.

This thread will re-open on Friday the 5th of Apr at 5:00pm PST.

[Steve Ashton]

Fellow members,

It is now Friday at 5:00pm and as promised I am re-opening this thread.

The Forum Moderators and I have been discussing all that was talked about here along with the issues we have had with Rule 11 in the past. We think we have come up with a solution that will be agreeable to the majority of X Marks.


Effective today, the 4th of April, 2013 we will publish an amended Rule #11.


Rule #11 (amended 4 April, 2013)
(For the purpose of this forum, “Weapon” is defined as anything that is designed for, or is used to, injure.)
The laws governing, and/or the views surrounding, the topics: 1) The ‘right to bear arms’, 2) The ownership, possession, carry and use of weapons, 3) Hunting, and 4) Self-defense, are specific to each country or region. Any discussion of these topics will be closed or deleted.


We will also be generating a new forum Sub-Section.

In just a few moments I will turn on this section. You may find it under the forum "The Kilt Styles and How They Can Be Worn" / section "How To Accessorize Your Kilt", you will see the sub-section "Weapons As Kilt Accessories ".


The first post in this new sub-section includes the guidelines for posts in this section but let me go over some of the major points.

This section is temporary. After six months we will review how this section is doing.

The staff are concerned over the claims by some of "thin-skinned whiners". Therefore the staff will not accept any flags of posts in this section. However, we also caution that this section will be monitored by the staff on a daily basis. Any post which violates the new Rule #11 or the guidlines of the section will be removed. A full explanation will be posted of why the post was removed but we want to insure some of you that the reason a post was removed had nothing to do with whining by over-sensitive members.

Please note that any post about weapons should be posted within this section. This includes DIY's and any photo where a weapon appears.

The only exception will be posts to the "For Sale" section. there is no reason to have two For Sale sections so continue to post For Sale where you always have.


On behalf of the entire staff I would like to thank the membership for their conduct and insight during this discussion. You presented your concerns and issues with Rule 11 well and respectfully.

I sincerely hope that this rule change, and the opening of a weapons section, shows that the staff do listen to you. We know that we did not satisfy everyone, but we hope that you can see that we were guided not by the desires of a few, but attempted to arrive at a solution that benefits the forum as a whole.

[Dale Seago]

I like it. I like it a very great deal. Thanks, Steve, to you and all the Mod team!

[Downunder Kilt]

Thank you Steve and the moderators for the time you have obviously taken over this issue. Your decision, in my opinion, is a most sensible one.
Cheers to you all

[PodKiDo]

Rule #11 (amended 4 April, 2013)
(For the purpose of this forum, “Weapon” is defined as anything that is designed for, or is used to, injure.)
The laws governing, and/or the views surrounding, the topics: 1) The ‘right to bear arms’, 2) The ownership, possession, carry and use of weapons, 3) Hunting, and 4) Self-defense, are specific to each country or region. Any discussion of these topics will be closed or deleted.

Thank you for taking this seriously and spending time on a solution.

I think the "or is used to" part of the weapon definition leads it back to walking sticks and the like as discussed earlier in this thread. Otherwise it looks like you've picked most of the nits out of it. Bless you.

[PodKiDo]

OK, Im back from the Weapons As Kilt Accessories sub-section and I have a bone to pick with you.One of the main reasons for suggesting a sub-section on weapons was for the topic expressly forbidden below.
What may not be posted.
7) Any photos or discussion of techniques, or kilt accessories for, ‘concealed carry’.

edit:CDNSushi got to it first.

[O'Searcaigh]

I think the "or is used to" part of the weapon definition leads it back to walking sticks and the like as discussed earlier in this thread. Otherwise it looks like you've picked most of the nits out of it. Bless you.

I would think that the rule is now sufficiently clear to cover what would and what would not be allowed with regard to things like walking sticks etc. (items not necessarily designed for but nevertheless used to -- injure.) For example, pictures of or discussions about using a walking stick for walking or hiking would surely be allowed; showing or discussing beating someone or something with one would not. I also like the fact that the new clarification eliminates the language of "harm to living beings." The new revision would seem to allow for censuring posts where "injury" (with malice) might be being done to property yet might allow showing/discussing the use of a sgian for cutting up vegetables.