Ewan McGregor Investiture Wear

[CMcG]

I'm a little late to the party on this one, but I'd still like to add a few thoughts.

Ewan McGregor was born and raised in the Perth area. There are plenty of photos of him wearing the kilt, including one showing him and his father together, both in kilts (LINK).


From what a quick Googling shows, he seems comfortable wearing the kilt from street wear to black tie:



My point is that he is no newbie kilt wearer and he has some options in his wardrobe. I take Jock's word for it that Mr. McGregor isn't dressed particularly traditional. My analysis of his outfit is that it is, instead, fairly conventional by the standards of the Highland attire industry.

I think this speaks to the power of commerce and marketing. For many folks, even in Scotland, McGregor's outfit is probably quite correct, even if it isn't 100% traditional. It would appear as a suit equivalent, hence why he wore it. I don't see his outfit as having much, if any, artistic leanings.

Notice, however, that his outfit isn't on the cutting edge of what kilt retail/hire is pushing. He is wearing an outfit that has been established by the Highland attire industry over time, though his choice of a charcoal jacket (instead of lovat green or blue) is bit more au courant. If he had really just walked into a kilt shop and had the sales/hire assistant dress him, he might have looked like this image from The Wedding Hire Company:


Or the one from kilthire.com:


Personally, I prefer what Alan Cumming wore to his OBE investiture ceremony, which I find a bit more interesting because of its personal flair. It isn't 100% traditional either, but is it more or less THCD than McGregor's?


If it were me, I probably would have worn something more like this:

[Jock Scot]

CMcG.

Do you know, I think there is a generational, cultural, experiance lacking(sorry but it is true), international, definition block going on here. Neither is wrong as such if we consider where the attire is being worn, but it seems very obvious to me that you chaps are not seeing what I see. Let me explain.

None of Mr McGregor's pictures in your post, or Mr Cumming's attire would be considered as traditional in Scotland. Distinctly smart in their own way, of that there is no doubt, but modern. The attire being worn and what it consists of are very fine examples of the modern way kilt attire can and is worn by the younger age group in Scotland and is a regular sight throughout Scotland on the right occassion. I hasten to add that this sort of attire is no more everyday attire than the pure traditional version of kilt attire.

Does it matter? Well yes it does, if we are trying to define things correctly for future referance.

[CMcG]

CMcG.

Do you know I think there is a generational, cultural, experiance lacking, international, definition block going on here. Neither is wrong as such, but it seems very obvious to me. Let me explain.

None of Mr McGregor's pictures in your post, or Mr Cumming's attire would be considered as traditional in Scotland. Distinctly smart in their own way, of that there is no doubt, but modern. The attire being worn and what it consists of are very fine examples of the modern way kilt attire can and is worn by the younger age group in Scotland and is a regular sight throughout Scotland on the right occassion. I hasten to add that this sort of attire is no more everyday attire than the pure traditional version of kilt attire.

Jock,

We've been in dialogue long enough that I got what you were saying, even without the succinct re-statement Thanks, though, for making it even more plain

Reading through this thread, it seemed perhaps that it might not be as clear to other folks. My commentary and examples were not aimed at you, but rather the new guys who are hanging around Xmarks. Some of them have recently voiced confusion about the possibility of wearing the kilt in a way that isn't straight & narrow THCD, but could still be appropriate for a given occasion. I was just trying to position McGregor as a decent example of how some people do that in Scotland.

[Jock Scot]

Sorry Colin you know how it is on this website, if things are not made abundantly clear then someone is bound to misunderstand! Whilst I did address my post to you in my previous post as pictures were posted by you in your post. You are right though, my post is intended for all interested parties and like you I was very much bearing in mind a gaggle of newcomers that certainly do appear to be confused over this.

In fact this thread is a very interesting one and is actually in danger of, perhaps/possibly/maybe identifying the cause of this seemingly eternal problem of this constant posting of "traditional" kilt attire by someone and me and others saying, "Oh no its not". Its getting tiresome and rather pantomime-esque. So actually, I hope many others from your side of the pond in particular may read the above post , think hard without I hope taking umbrage(it happens!) and perhaps/possibly/maybe have a light bulb moment.

[Shedlock2000]

Jock,

We've been in dialogue long enough that I got what you were saying, even without the succinct re-statement Thanks, though, for making it even more plain

Some of them have recently voiced confusion about the possibility of wearing the kilt in a way that isn't straight & narrow THCD,

THCD?

I am not too sure what this means....

When I posted this picture, I was certainly did not think Ewan to look unsightly - just that a number of the elements of his attire were not what I would have expected for an investiture.

Now, given my lack of exactness in understanding Highland attire etiquette, I would like to know:

1) Why are white hose so unpopular
2) What is the correct height below the belt (if worn) of the sporran), and if no belt - does the height change to suit the waistcoat?
3) Considering the formalities of an investiture - were one to wear a traditional outfit for the occasion, what should it consist of? (I have seen Jamie's excellent 10 ways to wear the kilt - but investiture was not one of those occasions suggested!) Specifically - what sort of jacket would one recommend for an investiture - My guess would be a sheriff Muir or a black Barathea argyle?
4) Much has been said about shoes - am I to guess that plain oxford toes or brogues in a black or brown would have sufficed (presumably depending upon the colour of the jacket and sporran).

With respect to Alan Cumming's outfit. I think that I see this as a natural progression of Highland clothing (which has not really altered terribly much over the last 100 years). Now, I am the sort of person, that if I were famous enough to be honoured at the palace, I would likely follow Mr Cumming's lead (though I can assure you the boots would match the sporran! URGH). That said, if I were not able to afford one of Howie's delightful creations, then I think I would resort to traditional clothing - but worn to its pinnacle of perfection..... But that is just the years in the Army still guiding my behaviour.

[Jock Scot]

THCD?

I am not too sure what this means....

When I posted this picture, I was certainly did not think Ewan to look unsightly - just that a number of the elements of his attire were not what I would have expected for an investiture.

Now, given my lack of exactness in understanding Highland attire etiquette, I would like to know:

1) Why are white hose so unpopular
2) What is the correct height below the belt (if worn) of the sporran), and if no belt - does the height change to suit the waistcoat?
3) Considering the formalities of an investiture - were one to wear a traditional outfit for the occasion, what should it consist of? (I have seen Jamie's excellent 10 ways to wear the kilt - but investiture was not one of those occasions suggested!) Specifically - what sort of jacket would one recommend for an investiture - My guess would be a sheriff Muir or a black Barathea argyle?
4) Much has been said about shoes - am I to guess that plain oxford toes or brogues in a black or brown would have sufficed (presumably depending upon the colour of the jacket and sporran).

With respect to Alan Cumming's outfit. I think that I see this as a natural progression of Highland clothing (which has not really altered terribly much over the last 100 years). Now, I am the sort of person, that if I were famous enough to be honoured at the palace, I would likely follow Mr Cumming's lead (though I can assure you the boots would match the sporran! URGH). That said, if I were not able to afford one of Howie's delightful creations, then I think I would resort to traditional clothing - but worn to its pinnacle of perfection..... But that is just the years in the Army still guiding my behaviour.

THCD= Traditional Highland Civilian Dress.

Just to give you a little history , THCD is a purely Xmarks term and was coined by I think David Pope, so that those who wanted to talk about traditional kilt attire would at least be within the confines of the same ocean! Leaving those that wanted to talk about Modern, Historical, other style topics to their own particular "ocean". It was hoped by coming up with this, albeit loose, definition it would ease the "clashes" of the various kilt and kilt dress style interests and on the whole it has succeeded pretty well.

White hose are unpopular by some---not all by any means -----for two very general reasons. Firstly they are standard issue for kilt hire companies and generally speaking they are of poor quality, but good quality white hose are around should you want to look. Secondly, there is the aesthetic perspective. There are many of the opinion that consider white hose do not show the kilt off to best advantage.

There is no "correct" height for the sporran. Although the waistcoat, depending on how it is cut, can influence the height a tad. Generally speaking the sporran worn about 3 or 4 fingers below the belt is not far out. The sporran is not a "jewells" protector and the sporran worn too low does not look particularly stunning. Also it depends what one is doing and it is wise to heighten or lower the sporran depending on the ocasion, typically I might adjust my sporran height two or three times during the day.

Remember the sherriff muir is evening attire, so would not be worn in the day ( ok before Matt chips in, there are tweed ones but they are uncommon so dont really count). The black barathea silver buttoned argyll(morning coat equivalent) would be the "correct" choice of many, but a tweed(plain might be best for this event) argyll of any sensible colour(suit equivalent) is quite alright too.

Black well polished brogues(not ghillies)would be perfect, but black oxfords would do just as well. Brown shoes in this case would probably not do.

Now this matching business is a problem that many of you accross the pond seem to suffer from! There have been many very long and very informative threads on this subject and if you search around you will find them. Colin(CMcG) may chip in with some leads here for you as he was a "guinea pig" for a little trial that I set up with him and others on making an effort not to match ones attire, which is actually traditional! I, like you prefer to match my leather colours, but its not necessary and a prime example of this would be Prince Charles, who usually wears with his day attire, black brogues and a brown sporran and thus far, he has not been struck down from above with a bolt of lightening!

[TheOfficialBren]

I agree. He does not look bad. To be honest, minus the white hose, he looks perfectly fine for the occasion. A sharp example of MHD (Modern Highland Dress) which, let's be honest, is working its way into the conventions of Highland dress and probably will become a form of THCD in the decades to come. Certainly some aspects of MHD as seen today will fall by the wayside but so have some of the styles and accoutrements of past standard bits of kilt kit.

Fashion evolves and like it or not so is the kilt's fashion bubble. We should be glad to see this ancient garment keeping pace with the times and still looking respectable rather than seeing it fall by the wayside into the dustbin of history.

I will bookend the above statements by saying that good taste and common sense must prevail above all. There are limits to the wandering found in MHD and to sum up what I interpret to be Jock's meaning: when in doubt, leave it out. (Please feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood, my friend.)

Better to understate than to overstate, IMHO.

[Shedlock2000]

THCD= Traditional Highland Civilian Dress.

Just to give you a little history , THCD is a purely Xmarks term and was coined by I think David Pope, so that those who wanted to talk about traditional kilt attire would at least within the confines of the same ocean!

Thanks!

White hose are unpopular by some---not all by any means -----for two very general reasons. Firstly they are standard issue for kilt hire companies and generally speaking they are of poor quality, but good quality white hose are around should you want to look. Secondly, there is the aesthetic perspective. There are many of the opinion that consider white hose do not show the kilt off to best advantage.

Good to know - I have long wondered this, and have harboured a sneaking suspicion about not working with the kilt well.

There is no "correct" height for the sporran. Although the waistcoat, depending on how it is cut, can influence the height a tad. Generally speaking the sporran worn about 3 or 4 fingers below the belt is not far out. The sporran is not a "jewells" protector and the sporran worn too low does not look particularly stunning. Also it depends what one is doing and it is wise to heighten or lower the sporran depending on what one is doing, typically I might adjust my sporran height two or three times during the day depending on what I am doing.

In that case, I wear mine about right - tough I often sling it to the side as I do a lot of walking too. I have been told that the 'Rob Roy' style is often so worn.

Remember the sherriff muir is evening attire, so would not be worn in the day ( ok before Matt chips in, there are tweed ones but they are uncommon so dont really count).

I did not know this - so the Sherriff Muir is similar to the PC in that it is only worn for evening events? I thought I read somewhere that the SM is satisfactory wear for the groom - along side the doublet?

The black barathea silver buttoned argyll(morning coat equivalent) would be the "correct" choice of many, but a tweed(plain might be best for this event) argyll of any sensible colour(suit equivalent) is quite alright too.

Hmmm - interesting to know about the tweed. The barathea is a less wooly, more suity jacket; lighter weight?

Black well polished brogues(not ghillies)would be perfect, but black oxfords would do just as well. Brown shoes in this case would probably not do.

Why not ghillies?

Now this matching business is a problem that many of you accross the pond seem to suffer from! There have been many very long and very informative threads on this subject and if you search around you will find them. Colin(CMcG) may chip in with some leads here for you as he was a "guinea pig" for a little trial that I set up with him and others on making an effort not to match ones attire, which is actually traditional! I, like you prefer to match my leather colours, but its not necessary and a prime example of this would be Prince Charles, who usually wears with his day attire, black brogues and a brown sporran and thus far, he has not been struck down from above with a bolt of lightening!


Ex pat (though now I live and study in Canada) - but not that well experienced in highland attire (I have the basics, but not the finer points).

I was always a bit too poor to afford the niceties. I managed to purchase myself a hand made kilt when I left school, but whatever jackets and hose I had were hand-me-downs. I was definitely working class, but made it through into a fast track commission with Welbeck 6th Form College (British Army) - where a proper sense of propriety was rammed into me!

Thanks for all the helpful advice, Jock!

[Jock Scot]

Shedlock.

There are more than a few aristocratic kilt wearers that wear "handmedowns" it is quite a traditional way of doing things. Take your time in gathering up your attire, better by far to buy exactly what you want, rather than having a drawer full of "nearlys" and will be less expensive in the long run.

[CMcG]

THCD?

I am not too sure what this means....

I think Jock's answer to this and your other questions was rather balanced and complete above.

...
Now this matching business is a problem that many of you across the pond seem to suffer from! There have been many very long and very informative threads on this subject and if you search around you will find them. Colin (CMcG) may chip in with some leads here for you as he was a "guinea pig" for a little trial that I set up with him and others on making an effort not to match ones attire, which is actually traditional! I, like you prefer to match my leather colours, but its not necessary and a prime example of this would be Prince Charles, who usually wears with his day attire, black brogues and a brown sporran and thus far, he has not been struck down from above with a bolt of lightening!

I would refer Shedlock to the "Review My Attire" series of threads from way back in 2010. Although some of the pictures seem to have disappeared, there is still lots of good discussion. Links to all of them can be found in the first post of the following THREAD.

As a general summary, the aesthetic of THCD has much to do with mixing patterns, while contrasting or complementing colours. To put that another way, avoid trying to match all your patterns and colours. I wouldn't, however, recommend making an effort to clash colours or heap on every different pattern in your wardrobe all at the same time

Take the general menswear aesthetic in the UK, add the bold tartans of Highland attire, and we have a path towards THCD's overall colour/pattern scheme. It seems that British style in general is more open to this than North American... I'm not sure why.

Some of this approach has spilled over into my non-kilted life and I feel like my wardrobe has a lot more visual interest and panache. As an example, I often wear something like a herringbone tweed jacket, tattersall shirt, and highly polished black brogues with a nice pair of je@ns when I'm lecturing at the university. One of the teacher evaluations from my students last year was that I have "swag"