Thicken your skin...develop a sense of humor...and just chill out.

[O'Searcaigh]

Just a few facts and figures:

Total Population of Scotland = ~ 5.3 Million
Total Population of Highlands, Inverness and Nairn = ~ 250K

There are over 250 Highland games held in the U.S. each year with an attendance of 1 - 2 thousand for “small” games, 5 - 7 thousand for “average” games and 20+ thousand for "large" games.

Georgia (home of Stone Mountain Games) has a population almost twice that of all of Scotland.

North Carolina (home of Grandfather Mountain Games) has a population almost twice that of all of Scotland.

Los Angeles Country, home to several highland games and gatherings, has a population more than twice that of all of Scotland.

California (home to more than a dozen highland games each year) has a population that is over seven times larger than the entire population of Scotland.

In other words, more people attend highland games is the U.S. alone (not counting Australia, Canada and others) than the entire population of the Scottish Highlands.

[cable scot]

I hear what rondo is saying and I do concur with the sentiment, but I would also like to think that we as a community could move along. A year or two ago this " Scots/non Scots topic was brought up,people got mad,people stood there ground and what it all amounted to was nothing. We are all here because we like to wear kilts,modern kilts,trad kilts,tartan kilts,rainbow kilts and we should leave it at that.

[moggi1964]

Just a few facts and figures:

Total Population of Scotland = ~ 5.3 Million
Total Population of Highlands, Inverness and Nairn = ~ 250K

There are over 250 Highland games held in the U.S. each year with an attendance of 1 - 2 thousand for “small” games, 5 - 7 thousand for “average” games and 20+ thousand for "large" games.

Georgia (home of Stone Mountain Games) has a population almost twice that of all of Scotland.

North Carolina (home of Grandfather Mountain Games) has a population almost twice that of all of Scotland.

Los Angeles Country, home to several highland games and gatherings, has a population more than twice that of all of Scotland.

California (home to more than a dozen highland games each year) has a population that is over seven times larger than the entire population of Scotland.

In other words, more people attend highland games is the U.S. alone (not counting Australia, Canada and others) than the entire population of the Scottish Highlands.

Aye but it's QUALITY not quantity that matters

I agree with the OP that people should try to be more calm and polite but we are a wide range of folks with different backgrounds and upbringing and 'stuff' going on in their lives. We aren't always at our best when we are on here and sometimes that shows through in the posts we make. I find the same on all the fora I am a member of and I have contributed to that unpleasantness myself at times (though not here.............yet!)

The point about the Highland Games and the numbers; as much as it is great that so much of the Scottish Heritage is commemorated in the large number of games and attendees across the US there is still nothing like attending an event in its true home.
An example:

I love Rugby Seven's and am planning a trip to see the International Sevens Tournament in Las Vegas in January 2014. I am sooooo excited. However, if I could go to the Melrose Sevens Tournament instead (a much less glamorous affair I can tell you) I would be there in a shot because Melrose is where it all began. There is something about being where it all began.

I miss my home and wearing the kilt connects me in a small way and the people here connect me in different ways. Of course, listening to a Billy Connolly album connects me like a piece of fibre optic cable

[A Lenape Scot]

I hope this my post will help everyone understand how they are effecting each other on both sides of the fence.


I have seen these kind of situations here in Oklahoma with the Native American world as well. The traditional tribal members are often angery about nontraditional types who are often in it for the benifits. In some cases an argument erupts about who is more Indian than another based on blood quantum. In my case I am in a job where I have to hear people tell me they have a Cherokee grandmother everyday or they are Indian because they have high cheekbones. Most of these people they have no proof that they are Native. This drives me nuts but this is my own personal problem. This is a personal flaw that I must learn to let go. Everyone has an identity they have created that they must protect.


It all comes down to what we value our identity and how we manifest it. Our identity is a cultural commodity that we use to create a sense of value in ourselves. When another person who values that same commodity (in this case Scottishness) and thinks that another person is watering that down they may be offended. Why? Because they feel that another is devaluing their idenity/commodity. On the other hand, a person who feels rebuked for not embracing another person's peramiters of a cultural commodity may feel their identity is under attack. In both cases individuals have a ligitament reason to feel defensive. It is time to realize that when we ask or answer a question that relates to identity (which tradition is an essential part) we are in a sensitive area and all sides must be respected. Many people have been angery at Jock lately when he is only giving his perspective of what supports his view of identity/tradition as a Scot. I posted a question on tartan ediquette that Jock answered quite well. Some were offended for me by the way they read into his comment. Please do not be. He is on the mark because he basically said to answer the question of identity for yourself and do not feel the need to explain it to anyone because most people will not ask you about it.


To wrap up, our identities are very important to each one of us. If we are going to ask a question about what is it traditional, how is it done in Scotland, should I wear a kilt, can I wear a certain tartan, how many kilts ect..., do not be offeded by the answers you get. If it helps you solidify your identy that is great. If not, move on without letting it shake what you value in yourself. When someone asks a question related to these topics do not get defensive and fear that your cultural commodity is being watered down. Just advise what you would do and leave it at that. You will still have your idenity no matter what someone else does. Most people are just trying to do the best that they can. Striking back another person for a comment or question based on a cultural commodity will always lead to a big dispute with everyone digging trenches to defend their boundaries of identity.
ith:

[Hawk]

A Lenape Scot wrote:

"I have seen these kind of situations here in Oklahoma with the Native American world as well. The traditional tribal members are often angery about nontraditional types who are often in it for the benifits. In some cases an argument erupts about who is more Indian than another based on blood quantum. In my case I am in a job where I have to hear people tell me they have a Cherokee grandmother everyday or they are Indian because they have high cheekbones. Most of these people they have no proof that they are Native. This drives me nuts but this is my own personal problem. This is a personal flaw that I must learn to let go. Everyone has an identity they have created that they must protect."

.....and let me add, as a "traditional" this is something we hear, we listen to, and we at many times just let pass by as we consider the source and/or essence behind the person speaking about it. And don't get me started on "blood quantum" as this is a foreign concept, imported and placed upon the indigenous People. Tribal People ( Communities, bands, groups and Nations, etc...) have their own ways of identifying those who they consider members of their own communities. This is completely different from what we are discussing here, as this has to do with identities in a general since, and how we as members here show respect and tolerance for the differences we all have.

But Lenape Scot has brought up some good points as how some people identify themselves and the emotions and sensitivity that sometimes comes into play.

Hawk