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At risk of being defenestrated by the moderators, I offer my last word, a rebuttal of Santayana. Although I dislike Hegel, his observation about history was more practical: History teaches us that history teaches us nothing. Look at Europe today.
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?1 Corinthians 1:20
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The Following User Says 'Aye' to Grouse Claw For This Useful Post:
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Good afternoon Grouse,
I don't think I am in the business of perpetuating any myths, though others may disagree. I seek to honour those forebears of mine who went to war. In this day and age, we may not necessarily agree with their motivations, but allow me to grieve for grandfathers and other family members whom I never knew due to their war service, please. And don't lose sight of this fact, that there are another 364 days in the year for the prime focus to be ahead.
Nor do I assume that anybody kilted on that day was celebrating. My invitation was/is along the lines of Mael Coluim's kilted Friday thread.
Now, to Hegel's thought above. Cast as it is, it is completely a paradox, and incapable of rational interpretation. But I agree with the underlying sentiment that it suggests, which I explain like this. History teaches us that those who wield great influence* will almost invariably continue to make decisions for their own benefit, rather than for the common good, apparently ignoring, or ignorant of, the lessons of history.
*Influence, whether political or in business (and here I run the risk of joining you on the footpath under the window).
Last edited by Grizzled Ian; 1st May 14 at 10:16 PM.
Grizzled Ian
XMTS teaches much about formal kilt wear, but otherwise,
... the kilt is clothes, what you wear with it should be what you find best suits you and your lifestyle. (Anne the Pleater) "Sometimes, it is better not to know the facts" (Father Bill)
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The Following 2 Users say 'Aye' to Grizzled Ian For This Useful Post:
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As already mentioned, 364 days to look forward and but one to look back and reflect. It's not a big ask... and for those who find it difficult to muster sufficient respect for those who gave all in conflicts past... please don't feel obliged to participate. Personally speaking, I'd not be offended, Not that my opinion counts for anything at all.
LEST WE FORGET.
My Turkish wife and I have walked the fields of Gallipoli and paid our respects to all the combatants that lie there. From Cape Helles to Suvla Bay, ANZAC, Turkish, British, French, it matters not, they're all dead. Gallipoli wasn't just the making of a true National identity for Australia and New Zealand, it was the spark that generated modern Turkey too so it is still relevant today... on the assumption it matters to mark such things.
Pleased to hear ANZAC day went well for most. Is there room on the footpath for one more?
"Bu Memleketin toprakları üstünde kanlarını döken kahramanlar! Burada dost bir vatanın toprağındasınız. Huzur ve sükun içinde uyuyunuz. Sizler Mehmetçiklerle yanyana koyun koyunasınız. Uzak diyarlardan evlatlarını harbe gönderen analar! Gözyaşlarınızı dindiriniz. Evlatlarınız bizim bağrımızdadır, huzur içindedirler ve huzur içinde rahat rahat uyuyacaklardır. Onlar bu toprakta canlarını verdikten sonra artık bizim evlatlarımız olmuşlardır."
"Heroes who shed their blood and lost their lives! You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours. You, the mothers, who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well."
Mustafa Kemal (Atatürk). 1934
Last edited by English Bloke; 2nd May 14 at 02:57 AM.
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The Following 3 Users say 'Aye' to English Bloke For This Useful Post:
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 Originally Posted by English Bloke
As already mentioned, 364 days to look forward and but one to look back and reflect. It's not a big ask... and for those who find it difficult to muster sufficient respect for those who gave all in conflicts past... please don't feel obliged to participate. Personally speaking, I'd not be offended, Not that my opinion counts for anything at all.
LEST WE FORGET.
My Turkish wife and I have walked the fields of Gallipoli and paid our respects to all the combatants that lie there. From Cape Helles to Suvla Bay, ANZAC, Turkish, British, French, it matters not, they're all dead. Gallipoli wasn't just the making of a true National identity for Australia and New Zealand, it was the spark that generated modern Turkey too so it is still relevant today... on the assumption it matters to mark such things.
Pleased to hear ANZAC day went well for most. Is there room on the footpath for one more?
"Bu Memleketin toprakları üstünde kanlarını döken kahramanlar! Burada dost bir vatanın toprağındasınız. Huzur ve sükun içinde uyuyunuz. Sizler Mehmetçiklerle yanyana koyun koyunasınız. Uzak diyarlardan evlatlarını harbe gönderen analar! Gözyaşlarınızı dindiriniz. Evlatlarınız bizim bağrımızdadır, huzur içindedirler ve huzur içinde rahat rahat uyuyacaklardır. Onlar bu toprakta canlarını verdikten sonra artık bizim evlatlarımız olmuşlardır."
"Heroes who shed their blood and lost their lives! You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours. You, the mothers, who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well."
Mustafa Kemal (Atatürk). 1934
Well said, John. I heartily agree.
Lest we forget.
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The Following User Says 'Aye' to Downunder Kilt For This Useful Post:
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Originally Posted by Downunder Kilt
Sorry for the delay folks but just got my camera back after leaving it somewhere. As requested here are a couple of pics of how I turned out for for my Anzac Day duties.
I think the Australian tartan comes up pretty well and felt very honoured to be asked to participate during the ceromony. Cheers
And yes, I was armed with a 303, whilst part of the catafalque party
Smart turn out, Mike. Thanks for sharing.
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Apropos of Kemal Ataturk's tribute -- a local songwriter has set it to music --
It's on my "to learn" list, but I'll need to practice it a lot before I'll be able to
get through it without having my throat close up.
Kemal Ataturk's Tribute to the ANZACs by Bruce Watson
Bruce said that he first heard the words at a high school ANZAC Day observance
here in Melbourne being read by a young woman of Turkish ancestry, first in Turkish
and then in English. His comment was that the tune simply flowed out of his head
as he considered the words.
-Don
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