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27th August 14, 06:13 PM
#41
 Originally Posted by pbutts
As I recall that's David Pope with his daughter, but I can't help you ID the tartan.
Aye, it is David Pope and his lovely daughter. David is wearing the MacMillan Hunting tartan in Wilson's of Bannockburn colours with an enlarged sett. Very smart looking kilt.
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27th August 14, 06:22 PM
#42
Also, David and I share the same sense of style in regards to bespoke kilt hose! 
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28th August 14, 06:27 AM
#43
Just chiming in with a big "thank you" for this excellent thread!
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28th August 14, 07:03 AM
#44
 Originally Posted by pbutts
<snip> in the historical section you cite Culloden, then the Sir Walter Scott/Victorian influence, but then when you state that--
"Contemporary THCD settled into its current form in the early 20th century and was largely codified by the 1950s."
--I want more detail. What influenced that codification? The war? The British royal family? The evolution of the Highland Games both in Scotland and the Scottish Diaspora?
...
As I understand it, there were a number of factors. This can be divided into broader socio-historical influences and narrower Highlands specific ones. The academic in me would like to be able to provide detailed, authoritative sources, but I'm an ethnomusicologist not a kilt historian or material anthropologist. Please indulge me if I paint this in rather broad brushstrokes, with some speculation and interpretation.
Towards the end of the 19th century, many innovations in men's clothing were taking place—both Highland and Saxon—that became widely accepted in the early 20th century and firmly established by the 1950s. The beginning of the Edwardian era (1901) makes a convenient, if somewhat arbitrary, temporal dividing line in that process. Saxon fashion was shifting towards the classic styles that continue to be worn today, such as the lounge/business suit and tuxedo. In Highland attire, the gold standard of traditional kilts (i.e., tailored, 8 yard, knife pleated to the sett) was still relatively new when King Edward took the throne.
Another area of transition was the move from bespoke tailoring to off-the-peg clothing. Mass produced menswear was becoming common by mid 19th century for Saxon attire, but due to smaller economies of scale, occurred later in Highland dress. In the first half of the 20th century it was apparently still fairly common for kilt-wearers to have their clothes made for them. This means that they had a more direct influence on what they were wearing. Nonetheless, the period in question (circa 1900-1950) marks the growth of Highland attire retailers, as opposed to bespoke tailoring house. This isn't to say that Highland tailors or bespoke accessories ceased to exist, but rather that the retail industry's growth played a role in codifying the existing practice of that time period, which can be observed in the catalogues from that era. While kilts were (mostly?) still hand-sewn, the rest of the kit was moving towards mass production.
Another thing is that Highland attire wasn't everyday clothing and the expense presented other obstacles that have contributed to THCD as we know it. People were—and are still today—inheriting not only the know-how of Highland attire, but also the clothing itself. If something doesn't get worn too often and is good quality it can last more than lifetime and be passed on to one's children This economy of attire is also where we get canny traditional ideas like one kilt in the clan tartan and full mask sporran, which can be worn for all levels of dress. It further leads to a very conservative approach to changes of style because no frugal Scot wants to run out and buy the latest, greatest thing when they have perfectly good clothing in the closet at home. The advent of relatively inexpensive kilts and Highland accessories is a fairly recent phenomenon, so the almost reverent attitude toward THCD is partly tied to the expense of owning it.
On the other hand, the British Royals continued to be interested in Highland attire throughout the period in question, as did the various clan chiefs and other nobility. The very visibility of these people, as well as their financial position, has had an important influence on THCD. I can't imagine that too many Highland chimney sweeps were regularly going to white tie balls. The wardrobes of monied folks would probably have been extravagant compared to the average kilt-wearer, which adds some breadth to the style.
There's also the influence of the Highland regiments. With two World Wars in that fifty-year period, there would have been a lot of (ex)military men, pipers, and regimental tailors around. This is significant if one considers that many less well-to-do men might not otherwise have been able to afford to wear a kilt. The "C" in THCD stands for civilian, but we can't ignore the military influence; these men would have learned a lot about smart turnout in the barracks. I suppose many them probably kept parts of their uniforms or were able to purchase them as affordable surplus, and then decommissioned them into their civilian Highland attire.
Finally, tradition is passing things on from generation to generation and the 1950s are within the living memory of many THCD aficionados, while the early 20th century was their parents generation, who, God rest their souls, have mostly passed on. This large time scale is important for any consideration of what is or is not (yet) traditional...
I welcome more knowledgeable people to contribute to this discussion and I hope I haven't made any glaring errors
Last edited by CMcG; 28th August 14 at 08:28 AM.
- Justitia et fortitudo invincibilia sunt
- An t'arm breac dearg
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28th August 14, 08:13 AM
#45
I agree with everything Colin mentioned above. I would add that when companies like Kinloch Anderson moved from bespoke to off the peg options, the variation in jacket styles narrowed. We see in their catalogues from the interwar period and after, a move to a more sleek and streamlined approach and away from more ostentatious Victorian styles.
Keep in mind, also, that they were selling civilian attire while also outfitting military regiments so there has always been overlap and cross pollination.
That said, the civilian aesthetic was also influenced by the boom in country attire and the tweed industry in general by the well to do set in the UK.
I hasten to add that the influence of people of means on fashion trends is not peculiar to Highland attire. This is the case the world over.
Natan Easbaig Mac Dhòmhnaill, FSA Scot
Past High Commissioner, Clan Donald Canada
“Yet still the blood is strong, the heart is Highland, And we, in dreams, behold the Hebrides.” - The Canadian Boat Song.
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29th August 14, 06:50 AM
#46
Well done Colin and Nathan. 
I am a tad late on this, but I have Been busy on rule 11 stuff for that last few days and have had no access to a computer. I actually saw the first post( with the red wording asking members not to post until you had everything posted first) and have spent several minutes, whilst sat in my grouse butt, wondering how it all was going to be received.
Just a thought. I wonder if your work would serve those seeking to understand traditional kilt attire------particularly new comers who don't know their way around the website-----if the "sticky" could be moved to the Traditional Forum, rather than where it is at present?
" Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.
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29th August 14, 06:54 AM
#47
 Originally Posted by Jock Scot
Well done Colin and Nathan.
...
Just a thought. I wonder if your work would serve those seeking to understand traditional kilt attire------particularly new comers who don't know their way around the website-----if the "sticky" could be moved to the Traditional Forum, rather than where it is at present?
Thanks, Jock. Given the recent discussions about renaming the style sub-fora or even reorganizing them entirely, this seems like a safe place for now. Depending on where things are at when that dust settles, this sticky may very well be more useful in another area....
- Justitia et fortitudo invincibilia sunt
- An t'arm breac dearg
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31st August 14, 07:18 AM
#48
Colin and Nathan,
Do you think the advent of inexpensive photography- and of photographic illustrations- may have influenced the codification? What about newsreels?
And finally, what about the most recent wave of standardisation wrought by rental shops? Will the rock of THCD be eroded by it, or will it stand firm?
Some take the high road and some take the low road. Who's in the gutter? MacLowlife
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31st August 14, 07:45 AM
#49
 Originally Posted by MacLowlife
Colin and Nathan,
Do you think the advent of inexpensive photography- and of photographic illustrations- may have influenced the codification? What about newsreels?
I think the tradition bearers in the Highlands use their eyes more than photographs to see what's conventional. I do think that a tourist could make an error by saying that people don't wear kilts in Scotland just because they can't see them on vacation.
If one takes a look at used kilts on gumtree or ebay, it's obvious that most of the kilts for sale are from Scotland. One should also note that if a gentleman dresses for dinner in his home, you wouldn't see that if you were shopping on High street. I think advances in production and sales methods (catalogues etc...) had more to do with the codification than photography but it could be a factor.
 Originally Posted by MacLowlife
And finally, what about the most recent wave of standardisation wrought by rental shops? Will the rock of THCD be eroded by it, or will it stand firm?
It's always evolving, but it remains to be seen which of these choices will be adopted by tradition bearers and which will be rejected. We see in the younger generations a tendency not to wear bonnets as often. Will ghillie brogues become de rigeur in the Highlands and will buckled brogues go the way of the do do? Maybe. Maybe not. Time will tell.
Last edited by Nathan; 31st August 14 at 07:46 AM.
Natan Easbaig Mac Dhòmhnaill, FSA Scot
Past High Commissioner, Clan Donald Canada
“Yet still the blood is strong, the heart is Highland, And we, in dreams, behold the Hebrides.” - The Canadian Boat Song.
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1st September 14, 07:52 AM
#50
 Originally Posted by MacLowlife
Colin and Nathan,
Do you think the advent of inexpensive photography- and of photographic illustrations- may have influenced the codification? What about newsreels?
And finally, what about the most recent wave of standardisation wrought by rental shops? Will the rock of THCD be eroded by it, or will it stand firm?
Good questions, MacLl, but I can only guess at answers. macwilkin recently reminded me of Erskine's famous quote about the freedom of Highland attire... he wrote it in 1901 and would have been looking back, but by 1950 things were more codified, so something was going on! Then again, I think that an intimate knowledge of THCD can also clear a path for understanding its ongoing and continued freedom 
"The Highland dress is essentially a 'free' dress -- that is to say, a man's taste and circumstances must alone be permitted to decide when and where and how he should wear it... I presume to dictate to no man what he shall eat or drink or wherewithal he shall be clothed."
-- The Hon. Stuart Ruaidri Erskine. 1901. The Kilt & How to Wear It.
Media, broadly considered, do have an impact on culture. With industrialization, the proliferation of both different types of media and efficient means of mass delivery have increased the mediation of society through advertising, entertainment, news, and information. This process probably did play a role in the codification of THCD, but it's hard to say how significant it was relative to other factors.
As Nathan pointed out, the sales strategies (i.e., catalogues) were inextricably linked with evolving production methods (i.e., off-the-peg jackets, sporrans, etc). People were also publishing books about tartans and Highland dress, and older paintings were being re-circulated as prints. I'm not sure how often people dressed in THCD would have made the news?
We might also consider negative pressures. Some representations of Highland attire in the media probably caused cultural cringe and encouraged tradition bearers to shed the more extravagant legacies of the 19th century. For example, in Scotland we could consider the Music Hall antics of Sir Harry Lauder during the early 20th century, and in America Brigadoon hit Broadway in 1947 and was made into a movie a few years later.
As for rental shops, I'm not too concerned about them eroding the rock of THCD. Keep in mind the dictionary definition of tradition is things that are passed down from generation to generation. I would argue that the majority of people who rent kilts aren't regular kilt-wearers and just take the advice of the shop keeper. If their kids then go to rent a kilt—even if it's the same shop—they aren't likely to get same thing as their father because a generation later the rental fashion industry would have moved on. For example, not too long ago the look was white hose, a PC, and fly plaid. Now the dark monochrome style with an Argyll is becoming more common, especially with a younger demographic. The lack of continuity makes it difficult to consider this a tradition. This isn't to say that rented clothes can't look good, but rather that the nature of the business is often more about the latest thing and less about classic style.
To put this in perspective, men's fashion has cycles. They tend to be longer than women's fashion, but nonetheless they are mostly less than a generation. I usually think of a generation as about 30 years, so the time scale of something standing the test of time and being passed down is more like 60 years... but my grandfather was still giving out style advice when he was in his 80s!
If someone buys their clothes, there are different considerations than in a rental. Frugal people aren't going to want to drop a ton of money on kilted fashion that may or may not last. People who own their kit and wear it regularly are likely to be more involved with questions of distinction. By this I mean being able to distinguish between fads and classics, different levels of formality, and the way the clothes fit. The result of efforts to figure these things out in a traditional context connects people to those who came before them and gives them a distinct aesthetic identity i.e., THCD.
My final thought is on the relationship between hyper-media (i.e., the Internet) and tradition. Advances in information technology have allowed a space like Xmarks to exist. Whereas earlier in the 20th century mass media was largely controlled by business, now it is possible for a thread like this to be instantly accessible on the world wide web with a quick Google search. Notwithstanding the power of corporate media, social media is on the rise because people look to those around them for guidance in interpreting the choices presented to them by advertisers, retailers, tailors, etc. Xmarks makes our world smaller and connects people together in a transnational and multi-generational community. Technological mediation of tradition anyone?
- Justitia et fortitudo invincibilia sunt
- An t'arm breac dearg
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