What are we allowed to post in this section?

[pbutts]

Nathan, are you asking for clarification on WHY posts are moved or are you advocating that the original poster's choice of forum be respected?

In the examples cited, is the move to another section the result of subsequent comments that hijack the original intent?

Personally I automatically hit the "NEW POSTS" button and skim through posts irrespective of forum to see what interests me. I only use the forum view when I'm shopping a particular vendor or looking for DIY help.

It might be helpful to do a survey on --

1) how many members go directly to the "Traditionally Made" forum?

2) how many members browse by "New Posts"?

Also, do a review the posts that were moved to see what topics appear to be problematic.

...this might give the moderators some data to ensure that whatever solution is considered actually meets the needs of members.

[Nathan]

Nathan, are you asking for clarification on WHY posts are moved or are you advocating that the original poster's choice of forum be respected?

In the examples cited, is the move to another section the result of subsequent comments that hijack the original intent?

Personally I automatically hit the "NEW POSTS" button and skim through posts irrespective of forum to see what interests me. I only use the forum view when I'm shopping a particular vendor or looking for DIY help.

It might be helpful to do a survey on --

1) how many members go directly to the "Traditionally Made" forum?

2) how many members browse by "New Posts"?

Also, do a review the posts that were moved to see what topics appear to be problematic.

...this might give the moderators some data to ensure that whatever solution is considered actually meets the needs of members.

Interesting questions but really don't address my OP. Obviously there are subforums so different people can discuss what they want among likeminded people.

What IS ok for this sub-forum? What DOES actually belong here in terms of new content? What determines whether you are wearing the kilt traditionally if not the things you wear it with?

[MacLowlife]

My jaundiced view is that those who decide have no interest in Traditional kilt wearing and, either by design or by mistake, they are killing the Traditional forum by moving posts which refer to anything other than traditional kilts- for example, my own moved thread on tartan jackets, which I posted here a few weeks ago. And yes, I know a jacket is not a kilt, but I agree with the posts above which noted that this forum draws traditional kilt wearers and traditional views, regardless of whether we ask " So, about those socks I wear with my traditional kilt..." or say "Should I wear my traditional kilt with these socks?" Of late, merely saying "Traditional Kilt" has not been enough- you have to refrain from mentioning anything else, too. I know that much thought has been expended on the forum titles, but I think the moving of threads is frustrating to the OP, not to mention disrespectful. When a month goes by without any posts at all, it is safe to assume that I am not the only one who feels stepped on.

My practice has been to check this forum first and occasionally to look in the General Kilt Talk forum, or maybe Advice. Sometimes I notice old friends from the THCD crowd in those other places. Lately, I just sigh and go on to other websites.

[Spartan Tartan]

My jaundiced view is that those who decide have no interest in Traditional kilt wearing and, either by design or by mistake, they are killing the Traditional forum by moving posts which refer to anything other than traditional kilts- for example, my own moved thread on tartan jackets, which I posted here a few weeks ago. And yes, I know a jacket is not a kilt, but I agree with the posts above which noted that this forum draws traditional kilt wearers and traditional views, regardless of whether we ask " So, about those socks I wear with my traditional kilt..." or say "Should I wear my traditional kilt with these socks?" Of late, merely saying "Traditional Kilt" has not been enough- you have to refrain from mentioning anything else, too. I know that much thought has been expended on the forum titles, but I think the moving of threads is frustrating to the OP, not to mention disrespectful. When a month goes by without any posts at all, it is safe to assume that I am not the only one who feels stepped on.

My practice has been to check this forum first and occasionally to look in the General Kilt Talk forum, or maybe Advice. Sometimes I notice old friends from the THCD crowd in those other places. Lately, I just sigh and go on to other websites.

I have to agree with this. I have been feeling as if the traditional sub-forum is somehow "on the outs" with the current "leadership", so to speak. As a result, it is being slowing choked out of the forum.

I come to the traditional sub-forum to have (or more accurately see) conversations about the overall wearing of kilt attire in a traditional manner. Primarily, because that is how I prefer to wear my own. Additionally, when I seek a new opinion, I decidedly go into the sub-forum(s) which provide differing thoughts. However, when I want to discuss something with like minded people, I do NOT wear my traditional outfit into a biker bar and expect to have an extended discussion about proper shoes and or hose to wear at a particular event. But if I DO desire that conversation, I too would like to avoid the "wear whatever you want, there are no rules" commentary that serves no purpose to aid the conversation that I seek.

[Steve Ashton]

I have been watching this thread and have held off responding until a few more of you have had a chance to comment. I am also reading all the comments from the Moderators.

What I think has been missed here is that the Style Forum and its three sub-forums are not fashion forums. There are currently no forum sections on X Marks that deal with different fashions, How you wear your kilt or what you wear with it should not be specific to one forum section.

In fact, having separate forum sub-sections based on fashion would be directly against part of our mission statement.
“This is a Kilt Forum. Our members come here to learn about, discuss and share a love for the kilt. This is not a Scottish specific forum nor is it a highland wear specific forum, just as it is not a modern wear specific forum. We keep our focus on the kilt. It is what brings us here and what makes this forum unique in the world.”

The word “Style” as used in the Style Forum means that the historical kilt is a distinctly different style of kilt from the traditional style kilt and both are different from a contemporary style kilt.
For example – I do not post in the traditional style kilt sub-section because I do not wear traditional Style kilts. Some have commented that I dress very traditionally but I have disagreed based on the definition of these forum subsections
Posting about a jacket in the Style Forum is therefore incorrect as the Style Forum Section is currently defined. As currently defined a jacket would be an accessory to a kilt so is most appropriately posted to the Accessories Section.
This is also why the definition of THCD was placed in the Member Written Articles and not in the Style Forum Section.

But I can understand where the confusion comes from. I have never felt that the three style sub-forums were the best way of doing things. The format only seems to foment a traditional vs historical vs contemporary feeling.

However, within the last few comments posted to this thread a couple of suggestion have been presented which may have given us the solution.
OC Richard posted - What I tend to post here are 1) things regarding vintage kilt photos and 2) things regarding Highland military garb, there being no "Highland military dress" forum (I sometimes wish there were).

First I need to explain something. I am not anti-traditional. It is simply that I do not like the way the acronym THCD is used here.
This acronym was invented by just a few members here. It is used only here, and by just a few members. It is not known or used anywhere else. No one outside this forum would know what it is supposed to mean.
And I would bet that no one outside of this forum would use it or agree with how it is used here.

And frankly I am getting just a little tired of the traditional vs modern tension that is caused by the way THCD is used. Lately X Marks has become known as a traditionalist stronghold. All of the other kilt forums have had comments to this effect that if you want to discuss modern kilt wear you should do so on another forum.


We all wear a kilt for different reasons. Some of us wear a kilt one way and some another. But we all do wear a kilt. This should unify us.
The only difference is the reason we wear a kilt. And this is where you, yourselves may have presented the solution.

I would be agreeable to changing the Style Forum Section based on the reason we wear a kilt not on how we choose to wear it or what we choose to wear with it.

Some of us wear a kilt as part of a uniform. Be it the military, or a pipeband. Uniforms are, by definition, uniform but each has distinctive differences. For example - some pipeband uniforms could be described as being based on tradition and some are very modern in their approach.

Some of us wear a kilt to make a non-conformist statement. Many Utilikilt wearers would agree with this. The entire publicity campaign of the Utilikilt Company is “Revolt against trouser tyranny”.

Some of us wear a kilt as daily street wear. Some may take a more traditional approach and some a more modern approach. Those who consider themselves traditionalists may post here on equal footing with those who consider themselves more modern.

I have created and just turned on one suggestion of how the Style Forum Section could be re-worked.
You can only see this suggestion. You can’t post to these sections.

Please notice that there is no THCD specific forum. And I strongly believe that creating one would drive more of a wedge between our members. If you prefer to dress traditionally you may post in any forum sub-section you feel like. This may actually open up the discussions more than they currently are.

Please remember that these forum sub-sections are merely a suggestion. My goal is to find some way of ending the conflict and finding a way that is based on the well-being of the entire forum and all its members. Please feel free to comment.

[sailortats]

Steve, I have to disagree with some of what you are saying. In the "style" section for "traditional kilts" it states in part:
(discuss and see examples of how kilts can be worn to emulate a traditional style or fashion)

However in your above post you state, in part:Posting about a jacket in the Style Forum is therefore incorrect as the Style Forum Section is currently defined. As currently defined a jacket would be an accessory to a kilt so is most appropriately posted to the Accessories Section.

How can we discuss and see how a kilt is worn traditionally if all we can discuss and see is the kilt itself and nothing that goes with it? The rest of the outfit is what constitutes traditional or non-traditional aspects of the wearing of the kilt.

[IsaacW]

I have been following this thread with great interest. I have not had much to add but do have rather strong feelings to the whole thing. This is a great forum that I have learned a lot from. I have also gained much inspiration from it, and I hate to see it waste away as other fora have done. My only addition to the conversation deals with the following...

And frankly I am getting just a little tired of the traditional vs modern tension that is caused by the way THCD is used. Lately X Marks has become known as a traditionalist stronghold.

Having been on many fora dealing with a range of topics; the fora that tend to see the most tension by "opposing factions"/different styles/POVs/etc. tend to be where they are mixed without regard. This tends to lead people to interject their opinions without regard to the intent of the OP or the intent/desire of the OP. Most of this is caused by simple miscommunication/misunderstanding, not a dislike or disregard from the other person's opinion. Giving an area for the different POVs to ask and answer of each other, often helps alleviate the tensions caused by the miscommunication.

Cordially.

Isaac

[macwilkin]

I have to agree with this. I have been feeling as if the traditional sub-forum is somehow "on the outs" with the current "leadership", so to speak. As a result, it is being slowing choked out of the forum.

I come to the traditional sub-forum to have (or more accurately see) conversations about the overall wearing of kilt attire in a traditional manner. Primarily, because that is how I prefer to wear my own. Additionally, when I seek a new opinion, I decidedly go into the sub-forum(s) which provide differing thoughts. However, when I want to discuss something with like minded people, I do NOT wear my traditional outfit into a biker bar and expect to have an extended discussion about proper shoes and or hose to wear at a particular event. But if I DO desire that conversation, I too would like to avoid the "wear whatever you want, there are no rules" commentary that serves no purpose to aid the conversation that I seek.

Spot on, sir, especially your first sentence.

I would be agreeable to changing the Style Forum Section based on the reason we wear a kilt not on how we choose to wear it or what we choose to wear with it.

Respectfully, what about those of us who wear a kilt to be traditional, Steve? For the record, I don't wear my kilt as "daily street wear", though I certainly do not begrudge those who do; on the contrary. But there are many of us who wear Traditional Highland Civilian Dress for functions such as Burns Suppers, St. Andrew's Balls, Caledonian Society meetings, lodge "dos" and other assorted functions and those only. Sure, I may throw my kilt on because it's St. Columba's Day or the regimental day of the Calcutta Scottish regiment and all that, but there's usually a Scottish connection. But that's just me. ;-)

One of my co-workers and I frequently joke that given the trend in tattoos today, it is almost "non-conformist" to not have one. (and for the record, I have no issues with tattoos. I'm just not sure I want one.) I would daresay that those of us who do not wear a kilt to make a statement, save that of our pride in heritage an interest in tradition and custom are fast becoming non-conformist as well. I think this is what Chesterton had in mind when he said:

He is only a very shallow critic who cannot see an eternal rebel in the heart of the conservative.

Again, as Alan H. so eloquently put it in another thread -- what others choose to wear is their business, and I respect that. All I ask is the same in return.

[McMurdo]

Steve
Your contention that the jacket and all the other accessories belong in another sub forum is incongruous with what Jamie and I did in the 1 kilt 10 looks thread which, if I may say has helped countless kilt wearers figure out what to wear and how to wear it. The thing is that whether someone is wearing the kilt traditionally or not, the kilt is constant. Of course this does not take into effect Utilikilts, Freedom Kilts or the like, however my point is just because it is a traditionally made kilt that does not mean it needs to be worn in a traditional manner. Thus it is the accessories that make an outfit traditional or contemporary. If you agree with the above then it follows that posting about a traditional outfit in the traditional sub forum would be the right place. Here is what the sub forum says is appropriate to post as it stands:

This forum sub-section is for those interested in learning about and discussing Traditionally made kilts and to discuss and see examples of how kilts can be worn to emulate a traditional style or fashion

Having read that how can one possibly post about a traditional outfit without mentioning the jacket, the sporran, the hose, or the sgian dubh worn? The simple answer is one can not.

[davidlpope]

The suggestion, below, is the simple and effective way to address all these issues. It's really just that easy. Why not try this for 6 months and see how it works?

Historical: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt from a bygone era—whether accurate, theatrical, or anachronistic.

Traditional: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt as Scottish Highland attire that has been passed down from generation to generation.

Contemporary: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt as everyday clothing and/or street wear that privileges personal interpretation.