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8th March 15, 06:58 PM
#31
Well, it's no surprise that traditionalists think the trends and ideas in the article are not traditional enough (thanks, Jock, for being dependable in holding the Highland line!). There is certainly something to be said for sticking to the classics that have stood the test of time 
A couple people have found that, notwithstanding the poorly styled examples, some of the suggestions aren't bad. I'd still be interested to hear from people who self-identify as contemporary modernists? Such viewpoints are conspicuous by their absence...
I have a response to the article, but I thought I'd survey other interested members first.
- Justitia et fortitudo invincibilia sunt
- An t'arm breac dearg
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8th March 15, 09:20 PM
#32
 Originally Posted by OC Richard
In 40 years of piping here I've never been hired for an evening wedding. I have heard of midnight Halloween weddings but never attended one.
Evening weddings are mainly a Southern thing. A holdover from the time before air conditioning where it was simply too hot to have a church full of people in the mid-day swelter. Indeed, some churches even switched their main service to evening in the summer months. Trinity Episcopal Cathedral in Columbia, SC used to have Evensong at 7pm as the main service for several decades of the 19th century. Also, though I did not attend kilted, the most recent wedding I was party to was at 6pm January 3rd. The groom wore a PC and Fly Plaid, his groomsmen wore Saxon dinner jackets with tartan tie and cummerbund.
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9th March 15, 12:50 AM
#33
Do you know Colin, it would be really refreshing to see a modern kilted idea, that LOOKS good at a traditional type of event. Alright we are talking personal taste here and of course everyone has their own opinion, but as yet, the new thinkers on kilt attire have totally failed in my lifetime-----more than a few decades!-------- to come up with anything that is in danger of breaking the basic traditional mould. I am not saying that people have not tried very hard so to do, they have, but thus far these new looks have not really prevailed.
Why is that, I wonder? Could it possibly be that those wanting to spend their hard earned loot on a new kilt outfit are not convinced enough to part with their money on a possible flash in the pan? It does appear to be the case, so it looks as though traditional kilt attire is going to continue for a few years yet!
Before everyone starts thinking------OK, already thinks------that I am a total stick in the mud, I do embrace new thinking and technology, where it works! I am very happy to use a carbon fibre fishing rod and modern fly lines, rather than split cane (I have even used green heart rods) and silk lines. I do use modern optics on my rifles although they do have their problems at times. We use GPS technology on the farms and many modern thinking technologies there and yes the past has pleasant memories but times do move on, provided that modern thinking is better than what it is replacing. In kilt terms that test has not yet been passed .
Last edited by Jock Scot; 9th March 15 at 02:41 AM.
" Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.
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9th March 15, 05:18 AM
#34
I think most traditions, be it one of dress or music or language or what have you, have a conservative component and an innovative component, the main mass of practitioners showing slow steady change.
Or perhaps not slow steady change, but "punctuated equilibrium", as when Highland Dress when through a large overhaul around 1900 and has remained fairly stable since. It underwent another large overhaul, what, around 1840 and remained fairly stable throughout the Victorian period.
Perhaps we are in the middle of another such.
Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte
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9th March 15, 07:13 AM
#35
I think you are right OCR, we are, perhaps, in the middle of a possible change, brought about by a combination of the Scots themselves having and using the opportunity to wear the kilt and international influences of kilt wearing styles and in un-Scottish weather, to cheap/er kilts, kilt hire and the whole lot condensed into the internet. Unfortunately, perhaps even fortunately, depending on one's viewpoint, kilt wearing know how is not there in volume to guide the unknowing. With, sadly, often comical, or disastrous results and has left a generation or two thinking, quite incorrectly, that they know how to dress in Highland kilt attire.
I think that in my lifetime I have seen two other minor shifts in kilt fashion in Scotland. The first, after WW2 and secondly another slightly larger one, in the 1960's/70's where kilt wearing in the lowlands of Scotland became a more accepted option for special occasions for more people and hence the rise of the spectre of kilt hire companies and the complications they have added to the equation.
Last edited by Jock Scot; 10th March 15 at 03:12 AM.
" Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.
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10th March 15, 05:57 PM
#36
What an exciting time if we are going through a paradigm shift in Highland attire! This situation, however, is thoroughly fraught by the various factors Jock mentioned above, and so ongoing, careful discussion of it on the world's largest kilt forum is a necessity.
In response to the article, I would argue that an "up-to-date" Scottish (or diasporic person of hyphenated Scottish heritage) kilted groom's outfit would be one that shows the modern taste for simple and clean style, but balances it against the socio-cultural traditional-ness of a wedding. To that end, the look needs the essentials: tartan kilt, hose, shoes, shirt, tie, sporran, and jacket. Fly plaids, weapons (dirks, swords, etc), bonnets, and cromachs need not apply.
One might wear plain coloured hose, highly polished brogues or oxfords (not ghillie brogues), regular button-up shirt with fold-down collar (no pseudo-Jacobite or wing collars), long necktie, simple sporran (no full mask, hair, or fancy detailing), and unadorned kilt jacket w/ waistcoat (no fancy cuffs or extra buttons). Flashes are optional because the garter will still hold one's hose up without them, but if present, would be barely showing. Kilt pin and sgian dubh are nice touches, but also optional.
The bright "pops" of colour mentioned in the article could come from the tie, flashes or perhaps a pocket square. The knot on the tie could follow the current vogue for larger ones like a full windsor, assuming the spread of the collar will accommodate it.
The monochromatic impulse could be matching one's jacket, waistcoat, and hose, but weddings remain an ideal time for the symbolic meaning of clan or district tartan kilts... Charcoal tweed jackets seem like a trend that will likely gain some traction because the darker colour suggests formality, while the type of fabric remains rooted in daywear. Of course one could have an interesting herringbone or windowpane check to liven it up!
I couldn't find any images that fully follow what I'm picturing. In my head, it's basically a stripped down—but still traditional—look, with some contemporary flourishes in how it's all put together.
Basically, I'm suggesting that the article's premise of being up-to-date is OK. I'm critical, however, of following the trends of the kilt hire industry or the whims of fashion because they are in danger of being dated in a few years. My evaluation is both from the perspective of advising someone who might buy their wedding kit, as well as someone who might rent and then have to look at the pictures for the rest of their lives
Last edited by CMcG; 10th March 15 at 06:30 PM.
- Justitia et fortitudo invincibilia sunt
- An t'arm breac dearg
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10th March 15, 08:32 PM
#37
 Originally Posted by Tarheel
Or, as the Pythons would say, "Now for something totally different."
Erm... that's "completely" different.
Here's tae us, Whas like us... Deil the Yin!
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10th March 15, 10:59 PM
#38
I like all the outfits, though that commando flap seems a bit short to me.
I changed my signature. The old one was too ridiculous.
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11th March 15, 07:40 AM
#39
Do we wear the kilt because we're traditionalists or are we traditionalists because we wear the kilt? I don't like most trends; they quickly pass and are revealed to have been ridiculous. Having said that, the kilt itself is more of an historic garment than a current one, so it's celebrants are more likely to prefer a more traditional presentation.
Having said that, I am aware that my resistance to trends has made my own style somewhat ridiculous. I was recently traveling (no kilt) through South Station in Boston and a police officer asked me where my time machine was. (Although that was partly inspired by the fact that I was carrying a paper book rather than an e-reader.)
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11th March 15, 07:41 AM
#40
A sea-change I've witnessed here on the West Coast of the USA is the appearance and current massive popularity of the Utilikilt.
They've gone from nonexistent to being a novel curiosity to being ubiquitous in just a few years.
This of course is happening in the diaspora. The question is: will Utilikilts have a lasting impact on Highland Dress in Scotland?
Who knows how many innovations have come and gone without having such.
Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte
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