Going Regimental

[OC Richard]

Pandering to one group because their culture is allowed to come before that of the unit and the culture that the unit is from is pandering, plain and simple.

Whether one prefers the term "pandering" or "accommodating" it's ironic that opposition appears on a kilt forum, because that's exactly what the British army did in 1743 when it brought Highlanders into the army but allowed them to keep their native dress rather than require them to wear the standard uniform. And not only their traditional headdress, but kilt, sporran, hose, and weapons as well. Even the Red Coat was modified.

[The Q]

I remember meeting Sikhs in the RAF wearing blue Turbans, and from the few I met, They were some of the more enthusiastic, efficient of any person in the forces. Sikhs have a long and Honourable tradition In the armed Forces.

As to uniform there have always been minor allowances such as glasses, moustaches, tattoos and come to that Kilt wearing.

Although I did Know one person as a junior rank, who was forever getting grief for a white streak In his hair so he carried a doctors chit saying it was natural and therefore permitted. ( The Warrant Officers still didn't like it).

[Pleater]

The other symbols of Sikh culture are allowed as well.

The Sikhs were always a warrior race highly respected by the British Army and Civil service too once they came into contact.

British forces do not enforce an identical unit uniform, in fact they frequently have official differences - such as 'stable' belts to indicate the military origin of an individual man.

When I was on an Air Army base some years ago there was a basic shade of khaki about the place but it would have been difficult to get half a dozen identical 'uniforms' together. When I visited Bovington Camp (tanks R us) I came away with a black patterned khaki sharmargh - head cloth, which they use to give protection from the dust the tracks kick up.

The rank and file of the RROS would find someone being appalled by the turban and how it is worn both amusing and perplexing, I'm sure.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Orvis]

With regard to underwear being worn in kilted regiments, one of my friends was once Major and 2IC of the Black Watch of Canada (RHR), and he told me that at guard mounting, the RSM would inspect the troops. When he passed behind a rank, he would use his pace stick to lift the kilts and any man caught wearing underwear was fined $25. My friend further told me that in his regiment underwear with kilts was only allowed for bandsmen, pipers and drummers and regimental dancers. I think the famous 1990's photo of the Black Watch (RHR) soldiers performing a colors ceremony in Hong Kong before the turnover to the Chinese settled how that Regiment's regulations viewed the wearing of underwear!

With regard to comments here concerning uniformity in the military, I can only comment on my experiences in the U.S. Marine Corps. In general, if one was to go onboard a Marine base while I was on active duty (1960s - 1980s), there would be an amazing variety of uniforms being worn. You'd see Marines wearing Blue Dress (or variations), Service Greens (or variations), the combat utility uniform, airwing personnel in flight suits, plus all of these uniforms being worn with the green service sweater (wooley-pulley), jackets, raincoats or overcoats (depending on weather and season, and usually at the discretion of the wearer). Uniform "uniformity" was usually only enforced for Marines standing in formations. Today, most Marines on bases wear the seasonal camouflage utility uniform as "uniform of the day," so seeing the other unforms worn is unusual. But there are still variations with jackets, etc., usually at the discretion of individual Marines. Marines (and most troops) in the field are also allowed greater lattitude to arrange their uniforms for the sake of comfort or efficiency, and that has always been the case. When I was a grunt in Vietnam, we were issued green cotton "skivvy drawers" to wear under our jungle utilities, but after I tried them out, I dumped them and went without them. The skivvies would usually ball up like a knot in one's crotch and were uncomfortable, so they got tossed or were used as rags to clean weapons. Additionally, in one detached small unit I was in, we'd often go on patrol in t-shirts and soft covers rather then wear our utility jackets, helmets and flack jackets (we only wore those when officers or senior enlisted were around). Many of us also got rid of our cartridge belts and pouches and carried our magazines in over-the-shoulder claymore bags. Just some examples of how uniform regulations can be stretched by the troops, either with or without the endorsement of higher headquarters.

[nagod]

traditionally the facial hair and turban are required by sikh religious beliefs not cultural.

[neloon]

I think the famous 1990's photo of the Black Watch (RHR) soldiers performing a colors ceremony in Hong Kong before the turnover to the Chinese settled how that Regiment's regulations viewed the wearing of underwear!

In the Highland regiments, there have been no "regulations" on the matter since the early '60s so Lance Corporal Wotherspoon was just exercising his choice! As a result of the well-known photograph, he is believed to have received many offers of marriage - I cannot understand why!
Alan

[Holcombe Thomas]

Some years ago, I was posted with a US Army officer who had served as the executive officer, in an exchange capacity, of a British Army battalion. At some point, his British colleagues had presented him with the battalion's headgear and a request that he wear it while with the battalion. He told me that he felt highly honored by the request and wore the British cover with his American uniform until he transferred.

Holcombe

[Father Bill]

Some years ago, I was posted with a US Army officer who had served as the executive officer, in an exchange capacity, of a British Army battalion. At some point, his British colleagues had presented him with the battalion's headgear and a request that he wear it while with the battalion. He told me that he felt highly honored by the request and wore the British cover with his American uniform until he transferred.

Holcombe

...which indubitably caused some questions at various points. The belief in a uniform uniform is often exaggerated from my observations.

Well recounted, and exactly so.

[neloon]

My friend further told me that in his regiment underwear with kilts was only allowed for bandsmen, pipers and drummers and regimental dancers.

Would that explain this advertisement from the Hudson Bay Company in the Winnipeg Free Press of 30 November 1919?

"MEN'S GREY RIBBED WOOL KILT DRAWERS for soldiers' wear. Pure and of good weight. Formerly 51.50."

Alan

[JohntheBiker]

I would think that there is at least one good reason why in today's Canadian Army, there would not be any inspection in kilted regiments of undergarments, or lack thereof:





Whatever the historical traditions, I would venture to suggest that things are different.