Vestiarium Scoticum - the tartan Pandora's box

[NPG]

Agreed Richard . I think the Allen Brothers design of the Montgomery tartan in the VS perhaps takes first prize in simplicity .

Richard and Peter , even though I fully understand the dubious origin of this tartan and the dubious origin of the VS itself ... I decided to have a kilt made in this tartan a few years ago . I generally consider myself as a traditionalist , however , after 40 yrs of being kilted I don't mind straying a bit .

Thus , here is an example of the Montgomery VS tartan being used today .

No argument here on the questionable validity of the VS .... just offering a visual example of one their designs .

Cheers , Mike

While the origins of the VS are flat out forgery and the tartans not really based in historical traditions. The tartans themselves have by and large been adopted by many of the Clans. I myself own a kilt in the MacLeod "horseblanket" errr I mean of Lewis tartan (or whatever name it is now being called). For better or worse these tartans are now associated with Clans and using them as such I don't see as a problem. Though it is nice to at least know the history so you can have stories to tell people while wearing the tartans.

[pbutts]

Matt Newsome has an old blog post on this issue which pays particular attention to the lowland tartans that originated in VS -- http://www.albanach.org/articles.htm...d_to_fact.html

[Reiver]

Nice link.
The Borderer's he discusses would have never worn a kilt in the heyday of reiving or after or at all until recently.
Recently being about the time of Sir Walter Scott etc. and then not often if at all.
The families were as 'tight' one would say as they were in the highlands due to the danger of being otherwise....with the border, the English and feuds.
The Chief of Clan Scott wears Scott red modern, which is the same/similar as what is in the VS.so do we, or variations thereof (hunting etc.)
I've no idea if highlanders think they/we've (Borderers' and others) have stolen their heritage but it matters not....reivers stole anything not bolted down from across the border (and oft from neighbors) so it's only proper we stole the kilt too.

[OC Richard]

I think the Allen Brothers design of the Montgomery tartan in the VS perhaps takes first prize in simplicity

That distinction, I reckon, would go to the old traditional "Rob Roy" check, the simplest possible tartan, two alternating equally-spaced colours.

There is an 18th century portrait, which I can't find at the mo (having had three Mai Tai's might have something to do with it) which shows that simple three-equal-stripes tartans well predate the VS. I believe the painting shows three equal black stripes on a red ground, very VS-like but predating the VS by nearly a half-century.

That's the interesting thing: some of the 18th century tartans which show up in portraits are simple in the extreme, while many early surviving remnants are very complex (and would utterly defy verbal description).

[OC Richard]

reivers stole anything not bolted down so it's only proper we stole the kilt too

My cousin Kenneth Bell would appreciate that remark!

[OC Richard]

While the origins of the VS are flat out forgery... the tartans themselves have by and large been adopted by many of the Clans.

That's the rub. The Brothers ingratiated themselves with several Clan Chiefs and provided them with their "ancient" tartans, which the Chiefs had woven, and conspicuously wore.

In my opinion the fact that early 19th century Clan Chiefs were bamboozled by a hoax doesn't lend authenticity to the Allen Brothers tartans. But others differ. I suppose that if one of these 19th century Chiefs had recognized fabric covered with Mickey Mouse as their official tartan, people today would be defending it.

(Sorry for the reductio ad absurdum)

[Dale-of-Cedars]

According to the Scottish Register of Tartans the VS text for Crawford mentions 2 different shades of green:

"The Vestiarium Scoticum describes the green next to the crimson line as being the colour of a 'tender ash tree, with the rest of the green being 'grass-green' Also appears in the 1880 Clans Originaux. The Vestiarium Scoticum red is bright red."

My attempted reconstruction from that description; the resulting different shades of green might make for a slightly more interesting effect, though not as noticeable as the blue stripes in the similar Fraser tartan:



Not sure if the family 'differenced' the tartan from all the other similar red-ground four-equal-stripe VS tartans by changing the red to maroon, or it derived from that darker red in the VS colour-plates.

[NPG]

That's the rub. The Brothers ingratiated themselves with several Clan Chiefs and provided them with their "ancient" tartans, which the Chiefs had woven, and conspicuously wore.

In my opinion the fact that early 19th century Clan Chiefs were bamboozled by a hoax doesn't lend authenticity to the Allen Brothers tartans. But others differ. I suppose that if one of these 19th century Chiefs had recognized fabric covered with Mickey Mouse as their official tartan, people today would be defending it.

(Sorry for the reductio ad absurdum)

I suppose I look at it differently. It is not so much a defending of what happened in the past as it is a simple acceptance. For instance the U.S. tradition of celebrating Thanksgiving started after the Civil War, but in primary school the idea that it is an ancient tradition is perpetuated. Now as a history professor I teach the reality, but I've come to accept that I'm not going to really change anything with this, Thanksgiving as an ancient tradition is ingrained in U.S. culture. I guess I see the Horse-blanket MacLeod of Lewis VS tartan in this same light, I know that story I know it's origins, but I accept that for better or worse it's recognized as an official tartan by the clan. I might also secretly like it's rather garish appeal

[figheadair]

According to the Scottish Register of Tartans the VS text for Crawford mentions 2 different shades of green:

"The Vestiarium Scoticum describes the green next to the crimson line as being the colour of a 'tender ash tree, with the rest of the green being 'grass-green' Also appears in the 1880 Clans Originaux. The Vestiarium Scoticum red is bright red."

My attempted reconstruction from that description; the resulting different shades of green might make for a slightly more interesting effect, though not as noticeable as the blue stripes in the similar Fraser tartan:



Not sure if the family 'differenced' the tartan from all the other similar red-ground four-equal-stripe VS tartans by changing the red to maroon, or it derived from that darker red in the VS colour-plates.

This example nicely illustrates the difficulty in interpreting shades from a description; for example the use of the term crimson for the red in the Crawford is open to wide interpretation. The true shade is extensively discussed in this Wiki article. In the VS plate the shade of red that is closer to scarlet than the maroon now commonly used.

Crawford


The shades in the plate aresimilar to those in VS Lindsay.


Interestingly, Wilsons' specimens of the period give only one tartan which they called Crawford & Lindsay. In the specimens belong, both c1830, the shade of red in the one photographed by Matt Newsome is darker and closer to what we now see, the second I took from a different collection. Whether the darker shade was but design, i.e. represents a different Wilsons' shade, or was simply a dyelot variation is impossible to know but I favour the former.



The rendering of the both Crawford and Lindsay tartans with a maroon shade seems to have started much later, c1880, and was probably the result of early aniline dyes trying to represent this slightly deeper red that had a purple hue.

[OC Richard]

here is an example of the Montgomery VS tartan being used today .

As I was saying it's possible to follow the VS descriptions yet not follow the Allen Brothers' drawings.

The verbal description is simply

Montegomerrye he heth three stryppis blew vpon aine field gren

which could easily be the below, the relative widths of the "stryppis" not being specified. I find the one below to me much more artistically satisfying.