Chief of the Drummonds in 1822

[figheadair]

This week I had an opportunity to examine the Highland Society of London's original collection of tartan specimens. The one for the Drummonds was submitted and sealed C S Drummond Gwydyr. I'm trying to work out who he was, does anyone know?

The chief at the time was, I think, Peter Drummond-Burrell who I'd have expected to have submitted the tartan. The family history is confusing because of the claimants to the Jacobite Earldom of Perth and there were parallel lines at the time. Most confusing.

[Jock Scot]

Confusing? Nothing new there then, Peter!

[ThistleDown]

Yes, it was the Drummond chief who submitted the tartan. Baron Willoughby de Eresby, Peter Drummond-Willoughby, 2nd Baron Gwydyr. Willoughby later Welles later Bertie later Burrell later Drummond-Burrell later Drummond-Willoughby later Heathcote-Drummond-Willoughby. That's what happens when you play four sides of three borders.

[figheadair]

Yes, it was the Drummond chief who submitted the tartan. Baron Willoughby de Eresby, Peter Drummond-Willoughby, 2nd Baron Gwydyr. Willoughby later Welles later Bertie later Burrell later Drummond-Burrell later Drummond-Willoughby later Heathcote-Drummond-Willoughby. That's what happens when you play four sides of three borders.

Got that, what I can't work out is why the initials C.S.?

[ThistleDown]

Now I'm not sure, Peter, but I believe it refers to Court of Session as the proof of the Baronetcy, rather than Lyon Court. But, of course, it could also be an acronym for the family's penchant for Collecting Surnames.

[figheadair]

Now I'm not sure, Peter, but I believe it refers to Court of Session as the proof of the Baronetcy, rather than Lyon Court. But, of course, it could also be an acronym for the family's penchant for Collecting Surnames.

Curoious Rex. Here's the signature in question.

[ThistleDown]

I'm drawing a blank, Peter. The Drummond chief in 1822 was Peter Robert Drummond-Willoughby, 2nd Lord Gwydir, but I can't locate a "CS" in my brief search of the family until the 1870+ Brig-Gen Charlie Strathaven Heathcoat-Drummond-Willoughby. Not your man. Sorry.

[MacGumerait]

Curoious Rex. Here's the signature in question.

Peter , I noticed there is only one period , and it is at the end of the second letter .

Is it possible that these are not the initials C S. , but perhaps an unusual abbreviation for Chief , such as ... Cf. , whereby the "S " is actually a lower case " f " .

If not , then perhaps an abbreviation of something rather than being initials of a name , given there is only one period after the second letter .

Just a thought .

[ThistleDown]

I think not, Mike. The designation 'Chief' attached to a surname is a recent US one. In Scotland a Highland clan chief is simply designated by his territorial name: Robertson of Struan, Grant of Glenmoriston, Macleod of Raasay, Macdonald of Clanranald, or by his patronymic: Moncreiffe of that Ilk, Mackintosh of Mackintosh, Macleod of Macleod.

This is a very well schooled hand, but the absence of the 'stop' is probably simply a style. What I think is important is the absence of a descriptive between Drummond and Gwydir and the presumption of knowledge by the reader.

[MacGumerait]

Understood and thank you Rex .

Just to satisfy my own curiosity , should we assume the label was written by the person who received and sealed the specimen or by Drummond himself ?