Argyle jacket with white tie?

[RichardtheLarge]

No,no,NO! The black Barathea silver buttoned argyll(BBSBA) is fine for minor black tie events, but is physically not designed to be worn with a jabot, therefore quite unsuitable to be worn at white tie events.

Out of curiosity, is it the high collar of a Montrose or Sheriffmuir doublet that you feel is specifically missing when a jabot is paired with an Argyle or Prince Charlie?

More to the point, are the photos of Sean Connery in his Kinloch Coatee and jabot frustrating for this reason? Thanks for your thoughts.

[Jock Scot]

Out of curiosity, is it the high collar of a Montrose or Sheriffmuir doublet that you feel is specifically missing when a jabot is paired with an Argyle or Prince Charlie?

More to the point, are the photos of Sean Connery in his Kinloch Coatee and jabot frustrating for this reason? Thanks for your thoughts.

I am not sure that I am familiar with the picture of Sean Connery that you mention. Is there any chance that you could show it?

Personally I do not think that the PC or the argyle jacket show off the jabot to best effect and yes, the Sheriffmuir and the Montrose jackets do.

As an aside, I do not think historical pictures of gentlemen in kilt attire are helpful in discussing traditional kilt attire. Interesting perhaps, but that is all.

[RichardtheLarge]

I am not sure that I am familiar with the picture of Sean Connery that you mention. Is there any chance that you could show it?

Personally I do not think that the PC or the argyle jacket show off the jabot to best effect and yes, the Sheriffmuir and the Montrose jackets do.

Yes, right here:
https://i2-prod.dailyrecord.co.uk/in...an-Connery.jpg
To be fair, I’ve seen him in states of arguable faux pax with highlandwear—a long tartan tie with his Coatee, for example. I’d suggest, though, that if the high collar or coverage of the chest with the jacket or vest is what is missed with the jabot, that an Argyle with a five button vest might be more suitable for a jabot than a Coatee or prince Charlie with a three button vest as pictured here. I suppose part of the trouble might just be the long association of Argyles with daywear nowadays.

What is your opinion on highlandwear as formalwear in general? Does anything seem amiss to you if people appear at a formal ball, for example, in a doublet, jabot, and kilt instead of white tie and tails?

[Jock Scot]

Yes, right here:
https://i2-prod.dailyrecord.co.uk/in...an-Connery.jpg
To be fair, I’ve seen him in states of arguable faux pax with highlandwear—a long tartan tie with his Coatee, for example. I’d suggest, though, that if the high collar or coverage of the chest with the jacket or vest is what is missed with the jabot, that an Argyle with a five button vest might be more suitable for a jabot than a Coatee or prince Charlie with a three button vest as pictured here. I suppose part of the trouble might just be the long association of Argyles with daywear nowadays.

What is your opinion on highlandwear as formalwear in general? Does anything seem amiss to you if people appear at a formal ball, for example, in a doublet, jabot, and kilt instead of white tie and tails?

Ah yes thank you, indeed I have seen that picture and yes it looks hideous!

Generally I think there are events that warrant a black bow tie and there are white tie events. Personally I rarely wear the kilt outwith Scotland and don't venture forth to those events these days. So should I attend formal evening events outwith Scotland I would wear a dinner jacket with a black bow tie or tails with white tie depending on the event's requirements.

As I think I have made clear the correct attire is the correct attire and anything else won't do for ultra formal events, and in Scotland the jabot is often the choice of attire for kilted gentlemen at white tie events in Scotland, but actually and interestingly, because kilt attire has very different traditions to saxon wear, a black tie with a higher end jacket(a PC won't really do), tartan hose, buckle shoes, formal sporran and silver sporran chain is perfectly acceptable to Scottish white tie events---------in Scotland.

[RichardtheLarge]

Ah yes thank you, indeed I have seen that picture and yes it looks hideous!

Generally I think there are events that warrant a black bow tie and there are white tie events. Personally I rarely wear the kilt outwith Scotland and don't venture forth to those events these days. So should I attend formal evening events outwith Scotland I would wear a dinner jacket with a black bow tie or tails with white tie depending on the event's requirements.

As I think I have made clear the correct attire is the correct attire and anything else won't do for ultra formal events, and in Scotland the jabot is often the choice of attire for kilted gentlemen at white tie events in Scotland, but actually and interestingly, because kilt attire has very different traditions to saxon wear, a black tie with a higher end jacket(a PC won't really do), tartan hose, buckle shoes, formal sporran and silver sporran chain is perfectly acceptable to Scottish white tie events---------in Scotland.

When one is invited to these formal Scottish events, what is the invitation likely to say? “Eveningwear”? “White tie”? “Formalwear”? Would you have particular qualms, for example, about attending a “black tie” event internationally with a kilt and a suitably formal jacket/doublet and accessories? Or is this simply something you don’t elect to do yourself?

Living in the states, I’ve had no occasion to be confronted with this particular issue at home as I’ve never been invited to an event that has specified “black tie” “white tie” or “white tie and tails”. The closest I’ve come is an invitation that specified “semi-formal”, but at which people were wearing a wide variety of things including daywear Saxon suits and formal tails. This lack of consciousness and organization, I suppose, is what has led pundits to cry that (at least in North America) “black tie is dead”.

For me, then, there’s no particular obstacle to wearing a kilt formally or semiformally to the events I do attend (theatrical and musical events and premieres, for the most part). There is effectively no dress code at all at such events, and you see people wearing everything from jeans to tails to them in the States. My kilt and jacket, then, are just seen as novel, fun spirited, and interesting, at least to those who have voiced an opinion to me on the subject.

One more question on the subject of Scottish formalwear: all else being identical in two outfits, are lace jabot and cuffs with a Sheriffmuir doublet, for example, considered equally formal as a black bow tie and French cuffs with the doublet?