Changing nature of the forum

[figheadair]

Has XMarks been dumbed down? I have been struck over the past year or so how the level of discussion on the forum has been far less erudite that it used to be. Looking at the type of posts they are now far more often reflect people looking for reassurance that what they are wearing is ‘correct’. I am not saying that these should not have their place, the rabble is a great source of advice for those new to tartan and Highland Dress but I’m struck at how few more academic type posts and discussions there are. Or am I wrong?

The likes of David Pope’s post Soldiers or Posers is the only such example of the type of post I mean on the three pages of What’s New. I notice that some of the people that used to engage on a regular basis are now far less seen commenting. I wonder if the nature of the forum is changing, are people discussing things in detail elsewhere? I can’t believe that it’s that there is not the level of interest. Thoughts?

[ShaunMaxwell]

Peter:

I, too, have noticed the change in the nature of discussion and general tone of the forum in the last year or so. And while I have little to contribute to the more erudite threads, I enjoy reading them and have noticed their scarcity of late.

I think this is partly attributable to the normal ebb and flow of membership on discussion forums, but I suspect that it also has something to do with the departure or reduction of participation of a great many members of a more traditional bent.

I know some welcomed this change, believing the traditionalists to be too dogmatic in their views and vocal in their opinions. Some seemed to think their viewpoints made XMTS a less welcoming place. Whether or not you appreciated their perspective, I'm convinced the forum is poorer for the loss.

That said, XMTS is still, by far, the best kilt forum I've found. Given time, the pendulum is bound to swing the other way.

SM

[GMan]

I have been on the board since pretty soon after it started (with Hank), and noticed it works in cycles. Sometimes the discussions are very educational, and sometimes I just want to roll my eyes in disgust.

[sailortats]

I feel the same loss. The reason being, I believe, the loss of most all of the traditionalists on here. We were made to feel unwelcome by many. We used to have lengthy discussions on a subject dear to a traditionalists heart but this seemed to cause many of the non-traditionalists to become irritated by some of what we were discussing.
In those days I found myself on here for an hour or more joining in on the discussions. These days I spend one or two minutes on here at the most.

[Father Bill]

I'm certainly seeing a lot less flags than I remember when I first became a moderator five years ago in mid-April. I don't know what that wee factoid contributes to this discussion, but it may mean something or other.

[OC Richard]

I have been struck over the past year or so how the level of discussion on the forum has been far less erudite that it used to be... I’m struck at how few more academic type posts and discussions there are.

Very interesting observation there, though I'm not quite sure how to interpret it.

I will say that you yourself are at a rather higher academic level concerning Highland Dress. You have studied many of the artefacts in person and have written learned papers and have published learned books. This makes you uniquely valuable to us. But who here can engage in a peer-like discussion of these matters with you? I certainly cannot. I am and will always be an outsider, aware of the emic/etic dichotomy.

But that's the strength of this forum, I think: the diversity of experience and opinion.

[LKM]

While I personally welcome the discussions on traditions and history I also see the need for people to have a place to start learning about kilts, tartans, and other Highland Dress. It was the in depth discussions I had read on this forum that drew my attention to this forum years before I joined, and to some extent this is where I also learned about what to wear with a kilt.

I have been wondering if there has been a rise in people getting their first kilt. Perhaps there is something in a TV show, book series, or other pop-culture area that brings the kilt to many peoples minds as a garment worth wearing. Outlander comes to mind as a possibility. If this is the case, then it would be natural for there to be a few years where there are a lot more people starting their kilted journeys joining this forum. Most likely these new people will learn from the experience of those who understand the history and traditions, as many of us have and still are.

[kingandrew]

I can't speak to the departure of many traditionalists mentioned above, as it seems to have taken place before I was frequenting this forum.

However, there do seem to be a couple of new "newbie" threads every time I log on. Which would support the idea that we are seeing an influx of new members seeking guidance and reassurance as novice kilt-wearers. I can see where the preponderance of "how do I choose a sporran/hose color/etc" threads might seem to drown out more specialized discussions, just by their sheer numbers and constant churn.

However, I also agree that a flood of newbies is a positive development to be encouraged, as it will enrich the whole kilting community we share.

That said, I really love the more detailed and historical discussions and have read many of the old threads with interest. I have also clicked on the links to read quite a few of Peter's research papers on various tartan relics and issues.

I hope we continue to encourage the newcomers, and hope that they eventually develop an interest in the deeper historical discussions, too.

And I invite anyone who has a deeper discussion idea to post it, so we can see the Rabble demonstrate their erudition and ideas.

Andrew

[Steve Ashton]

Erudite is defined by Merriam-Webster as - Having or showing knowledge that is gained by studying.

In the past 90 days (or since 1 Jan) this forum has had 145 new members join us in our discussions. That is 1.6 new members for every day of this this year. We are currently at 20,749 total members.

I have been a member of this forum almost since its start although, like many, I lurked for quite a while before actually registering. In the time I was lurking I was reading and learning. Studying to become erudite if you will.

X Marks is the oldest kilt forum still in existence. Others have come and gone and X Marks survives.
X Marks is also the largest and most active on-line community dedicated to the kilt. I use the word 'community' for a very specific reason. Most of us have come to know each other and we have all built something here that exists no where else on the web. A community of those who love, wear, and in some cases study the kilt.

But the vast majority of those who come out of the woodwork and register do so for the same reason. They have just discovered the kilt and have chosen this unique place to learn.
We see on an almost daily basis posts in the "Newbie" section questions about how to wear the kilt. Questions about how to accessorize the kilt. Questions about the history around the kilt.

Everyone learns and it is one of the strengths of X Marks that we have, in addition to all the new members with questions, been able to attract those with the knowledge gained through study.
X Marks has perhaps the largest accumulation of kilt experts in the entire world. People like Peter who have spent a lifetime studying Tartan and the weaving of Tartan. We have world renowned experts who come from about every specialty around the kilt. We have professional historians, pipers and pipe band members, members of the military kilted units, kilt makers, and kilted Clergy.


Is it any wonder that we attract so many new people? People who may have worn a kilt for years and many who are just starting their journey of learning.

Over the past 14 years I have experienced first hand the cyclical nature of on-line forums. New members come, sometimes life changes and some members leave. (and yes, I will freely admit that some have been chased away and some have been asked to leave over rule violations.) There have been stretches where the forum seems dull and not active at all. At other times the discussions have been amazingly active.
In the early days the Utilikilt had just been introduced and quite a few of the discussions revolved around this new type of kilt. At other times the Tartan kilt as worn in Scotland by Scots has been the most common topic.

All of this just proves that X Marks is a living, breathing, evolving thing. The only constant is change and X Marks has changed and evolved quite a few times over its life.

When I first discovered X Marks I was a total newbie. I had just made my first kilt. And it was horrid. I had heard from the family oral history that I had some Scottish ancestry did not come from a world that had kilts in it. I joined because I had found a place where those here, could identify a kilt 2 times out of 3 without having to look in the back of the book.

And X Marks became my book. I learned to make a kilt from "The Art of Kiltmaking". I learned from Scots how the kilt is worn in Scotland. I learned from those who go to Burning Man how to wear a kilt in 100+ degree heat. And perhaps the most important lesson - That what I saw on other sites was not the only way to wear a kilt.

So yes, X Marks is currently experiencing a lot of new members. Members with the same basic questions many of us had when we first joined.
That means that those of us who have had the time to study should step up and now teach our new community members.

If a member wishes to discuss the fine points of kilts they just have to post. Holding back or decrying a temporary shift in the discussions does not help the new members. Those new members have come here because of what you have to teach.

You are their book - "Publish or Perish".

[Baeau]

.....So yes, X Marks is currently experiencing a lot of new members. Members with the same basic questions many of us had when we first joined.
That means that those of us who have had the time to study should step up and now teach our new community members.

If a member wishes to discuss the fine points of kilts they just have to post. Holding back or decrying a temporary shift in the discussions does not help the new members. Those new members have come here because of what you have to teach.

You are their book - "Publish or Perish".....

What Steve put, is why I became a member. My lurking about XMTS, showed there were many that had more knowledge than I. Whether about kilts, how to wear kilts, history of kilts, traditions, et cetera. Where else to learn, but here. I firmly believe in deferring to a knowledgeable individual for answers / opinions. It can keep one from looking the fool. At times, I may come across as the Court Jester (or Village Idiot...it is a blurred line between the two). That's my nature. In the few weeks on the forum, I've learned more than I assumed was needed. Or, another view, I have been humbled due to what I didn't know. I'm grateful for all the help received. I've become acquainted with several members. Added to the kilt kit. And, had a drawing lesson. One certainty, forum members are willing to help the new individual.

As a member of another forum, private / closed research group, we get off task. No different than XMTS. When tracing the lineage of racing cars, we will drift off. It's as tedious ( similar to ) doing one's family genealogy. Without DNA. When information is slow to be discovered, we tend to discuss issues with recent owners of particular chassis, or rumors. We make no forward progress. Eventually, we get back track. It is the normal cycle.

To end my twaddle, if the forum posts could be printed & bound, how many volumes would it be? In and among pointless posts, there is a tremendous amount of serious information. Genuine questions, & concerns (such as this thread). One truth, lots of help for the "newbie". Also, with 20,749 members, how many different ideas / opinions / comments on any given subject are out there? If a ship was out at sea, with that many Captains, they could never agree on which way to go. Twaddle ends.