The Scots Gaelic Myth

[cessna152towser]

No they aren't, they are mostly Gaelic-speaking. Please Google the map of Scotland.

The map which you posted actually shows the eastern lowlands, all the way north to the south shore of the Firth of Forth as "Men of Lothian", English speaking.
The Lothian region extends from the east of the Central Lowlands southwards into the Southern Uplands.

[CollinMacD]

I must correct one statement you made about the Jacobites. Jacobites were not just from the Highlands, many Jacobites lived in England as well as the Lowlands, but they did not talk about it and supported the cause during the uprisings. Jacobites were not just Roman Catholic, but were also Protestants too. The Jacobite cause was not as hated as you may think, much of the support of the Jacobites and their actions were done one the sly. Regarding the "speaking in tongue" as my Grandfather would say, I agree totally with Peter, after the Uprising, much of Gaelic made way for English, as it fell in disfavor, mainly because of fear, and never regained. However, Gaelic was brought over to Nova Scotia, PEI, Newfoundland, and even in the U.S. in the Outer Banks were it flourished for years. Even slaves in the Outer Banks spoke Gaelic, learned by their Scottish Masters, and to this day, Gaelic in small pockets exist in the Outer Banks. So, I agree, it was spoken across Scotland, or very least understood, but as you go closer to the English border, it was less used. Same as Welsh, as you got closer to the Border of England and Wales, the Welsh language was used less and less.

[John_Carrick]

Thank you for a very interesting thread.

May I ask what was the language of the Picts? I know I am going back hundreds of years further, but with the foundation of the Scotland, my understanding was the Irish Gaelic speaking Scotti and the Picts forged a Kingdom under Kenneth MacAlpin (much myth and legend about how fast and how violently this occurred).

My understanding of Scottish historic is very high level and may be very wrong, so be gentle.

[figheadair]

Thank you for a very interesting thread.

May I ask what was the language of the Picts? I know I am going back hundreds of years further, but with the foundation of the Scotland, my understanding was the Irish Gaelic speaking Scotti and the Picts forged a Kingdom under Kenneth MacAlpin (much myth and legend about how fast and how violently this occurred).

My understanding of Scottish historic is very high level and may be very wrong, so be gentle.

Not everything on Wiki is necessary correct all the time but this is a good summary of what we know/can deduce of this extinct language - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictish_language

[Taskr]

The growth and distribution of Scots in Scotland and Ulster: Old English by the beginning of the 9th century in the northern portion of the Anglo-Saxon kingdom of Northumbria, now part of Scotland
Early Scots by the beginning of the 15th century
Modern Scots by the mid 20th century

While splitting hairs, would seem to indicate at least some of the lowlands speaking old English prior to the 12th Century.

I was taught Gaelic in elementary school, and still remember a few simple phrases.

[Tarheel]

David, I lived in Salter Path, NC. (on the outer banks) for three years in the mid 1980's. I was a land surveyor and met every sort of person up and down the outer banks. I found the folks on Harker's Island (for instance) spoke with a Gloucester brogue. The people of Oriental, and New Bern spoke with more of an old English slant. All the fishing villages blended to sound like northern American fishermen. There were voices from the Caribbean and cajun areas thrown in with the different fishing seasons.

To my ear, the NC mountain and foothill people sounded gaelic.

Collin, the Cape Fear river was the main trade route into the middle of NC. The Yadkin River was the next artery that my family used and lived along. Scots made encampments all along those routes to get to the mountains. Sorry for the history lesson but trade was the main objective in the New World and languages changed as fast the currencies flowed.

[Steve Ashton]

that whilst Britain is still ruled by a line of Queens and Kings who are of Stuart descent,

??? I'm sorry, perhaps my history is rusty.

[Taskr]

The Royal House of Stuart became extinct with the death of Cardinal Henry Benedict Stuart, brother of Charles Edward Stuart, in 1807

[PatrickHughes123]

Thank you for a very interesting thread.

May I ask what was the language of the Picts? I know I am going back hundreds of years further, but with the foundation of the Scotland, my understanding was the Irish Gaelic speaking Scotti and the Picts forged a Kingdom under Kenneth MacAlpin (much myth and legend about how fast and how violently this occurred).

My understanding of Scottish historic is very high level and may be very wrong, so be gentle.

Yes, that is the gist of it. The language is known today as Pictish. In 843 AD, Kenneth MacAlpin took control of Pictland and both the Gaelic kingdom and the Pict kingdom merged to form the Kingdom of Alba. Pictish lands were completely Gaelic-speaking by 900 AD, Pictish now was extinct. Alba would take part of the English kingdom in 1018, and Strathclyde in 1020. Cumbric-speaking people from Strathclyde were completely Gaelic speaking by the start of the 12th Century. This never happened in the English-speaking part as they were allowed to keep their own language, this Northern variety of English was soon to become the Scots language.

Scotland then gained more ground in 1234 when the Gaelic-speaking Galloway kingdom became part of Scotland in the extreme South-West.

Scotland then gained Orkney and Shetland in 1469. There is more to it than that but that is beyond the scope of the post.

[John_Carrick]

Thank you Patrick, I find all this fascinating and must read up further when time allows.