Limits of tattersall

[Tobus]

Jock Scot made an interesting comment in another thread, and not wanting to hijack that thread, I thought it better to start a new one. Note: I'm posting this specifically in the traditional forum so as to focus on the traditional perspective.

In a discussion about sources for shirts, the tattersall shirt offerings at Samuel Windsor were brought up. Jock Scot's reply was:

I had a quick look at their tattersall and "country" shirts and found that they tend to look a tad "noisier" than some of the shirts that we are used to over here.

It made me curious as to where we draw the line between tasteful, traditional tattersall shirt patterns and other noisier/louder patterns. Before you say it, yes, I realise that this borders on over-thinking things or focusing on minutia, but I enjoy such thought exercises. And yes, I realise that the term tattersall originally meant something very specific with regard to patterns on a horse blanket. I'm not interested in tedious definitions of how to define tattersall. I'm more interested in where the traditional eye ceases to think of a tattersall or checked shirt pattern being appropriate with the kilt, and what those factors would be.

Is it the size/spacing of the grids? Thickness of lines? Number of different colours of lines? Background/base colour? I hope the question makes sense.

A picture is worth a thousand words, yeah? I don't think there would be any use in trying to rigidly define such limits by measurements. I'm looking more for some visual examples of what traditionalists consider to be a solidly-traditional tattersall shirt for wearing with a kilt, as well as examples of when you'd be approaching the limits or going past the limits.

Below are a couple of the tattersall shirts I have. Apologies for my amateur selfie skills.

This one, I would presume, is a rather mild pattern that isn't too bold or "noisy". Would traditionalists agree?




What about this one? It is obviously a bolder pattern. Would it be approaching the "noise limit" for wearing with a kilt, or has it already passed that limit?



Do you have examples of shirts that you would say are traditional versus "too noisy"? And what about the pattern makes it so?

[imbrius]

I would be interested in this as well. I have several such shirts but all of them tend toward the bolder side in color and my wife says they look too busy with my kilt whereas my subdued blue gingham check looks smashing, and to be honest, I have no idea why!

[Profane James]

It's likely a product of the fashion world going bankrupt and attempting to reinvent the wheel. You'd probably have to order from UK.
Here is a nice Barbour:
https://www.outdoorandcountry.co.uk/...l?c=Rich%20Red

[Nomad]

I would be interested in this as well. I have several such shirts but all of them tend toward the bolder side in color and my wife says they look too busy with my kilt whereas my subdued blue gingham check looks smashing, and to be honest, I have no idea why!

As far as my opinion goes, I think your wife has summed it up perfectly, it's not just colours but how they are combined in the pattern. If the colours are deep/dark and there are many lines/checks/patterns then there is a chance that they will compete and give the beholder a headache or at the very least a mild feeling of vertigo.

Tobus, first shirt no problems, second you may be right on borderline because the green line tends to catch my eye, but that may be because it is a close up, it could be entirely different from 5 foot away. I tend to like tattershall so because the background is an off white/ cream colour which is much more pleasing than a large expanse of white against the kilt colours.

Of course these are just my opinions and like that well known phrase, that is too rude to say on here, everyone has one.

[CollinMacD]

I am on board with this post, as I am totally confused on the criteria that determines a Tattersall Shirt.

Tattersail seems to be what one interprets a Tattersall to be, but there has to be some to of standard.

I see shirts that appear to be like Tattersall, but are referred to graph shirts or Geometric Square or several other names, yet the look like Tattersall. So I would like to learn what the criteria is of a Tattersall, as I see some that have button down collars, but yet others say no spread collars, I see some with white or cream color background, and yet others with blue or dark blue with contrasting lines. Does the actual material of the shirt matter, does it have to be a shirt with a certain thread count? Are the lines printed or threaded?

Just would like to know and understand what to be when looking for a Tattersall Shirt for use with a Kilt or Scottish dress.

[Tarheel]

I know when my wife uses the word "busy" with any thing I wear, she is correct that I need to adjust my combination. I like the first shirt you displayed Tobus and the shirt you link to James. Both shirts shown seem muted enough to wear with a kilt.

[Manu]

To me, the first picture Tobus posted is perfectly fine. The second one, the lines are a bit too wide for a kilt. I consider a traditional tattersall to be a subtle pattern on a light color base, white or off white or cream. Printed lines just means a lower cost to produce and hence a lower cost to the consumer. A fabric with woven lines will always be more expensive and consider a finer material. In the end, we are at the mercy of marketing departments that label shirts this that or the other. I've seen a huge spectrum of shirts marketed as tattersall, but if I had to draw the line somewhere based on traditional kilted attire, I would say the thinner and subtle pattern lines work best.

[imbrius]

The second one, the lines are a bit to wide for a kilt.

See now THAT makes sense! I never thought of that but it makes sense. I have no natural ability for fashion and I never understood why some patterns worked and others didn't.

[Manu]

See now THAT makes sense! I never thought of that but it makes sense. I have no natural ability for fashion and I never understood why some patterns worked and others didn't.

No worries. I just have over 10 years in the fashion industry and these things are second nature to me

[The Wizard of BC]

In a very similar vein as the old saying about Tartan -

All Tattersall are checks but not all checks are Tattersall.

This is Tattersall.