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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    Once again it's interesting to hear Highland Dress placed in the wider notion of cultural appropriation and cultural stereotypes.

    For a good chunk of my youth I wore cowboy boots, jeans, and a cowboy hat as my everyday dress. Many people wear Western Wear as a matter of course. It strikes me as odd to see such ordinary clothes treated as "costume".
    Now we're getting down to the crux of the matter! That is precisely what makes a "costume" in this particular context: the wearing of clothing that represents a character, group, ethnicity, lifestyle, or profession that isn't part of one's normal life or cultural background; it's dressing up in someone else's style of clothing. As a Texan, I can (and do) wear jeans, boots, and a cowboy hat and it's just regular clothing like many people around here wear. And in fact, for some of my activities, it would be odd not to wear it. A chap in Germany, with no ties to US western culture, could wear the same thing but it would be a "costume" if it's not the clothing he regularly wears. Everybody's clothing is a "costume" to someone else around the world.

    The kilt is one of the world's most recognisable garments which teeters perilously on the edge of costumery. This is the reason so many people question the wearer's motive or background when they see it being worn in public. They need to make sense of it, and their question (in whatever form it takes) is to determine whether it's being worn as a costume or for a "legitimate" (in their view) reason.

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  3. #92
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    [QUOTE=Chris Hills;1366266]
    Quote Originally Posted by Baeau View Post
    What about all of these "ren fairs"? I see all of these fake jacobites wearing pretend shirts and shoes that didn't even exist, which really makes me look stupid in "proper" kiltware. Not trying to get into what is proper or not, just saying that if the majority of those on this thread seem to be against halloween costumes, far more people far more often are going in costume to renaissance fairs. Shouldn't that be equally as annoying to us scots then? Or perhaps I am just missing the distinction (and note I am definitely not trying to be snarky, the above notes about halloween costumes certainly got me rethinking things). Your thoughts?
    No, you’re spot on. That behavior, as well, should be avoided at all costs.

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  5. #93
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    The kilt is one of the world's most recognisable garments which teeters perilously on the edge of costumery. This is the reason so many people question the wearer's motive or background when they see it being worn in public. They need to make sense of it, and their question (in whatever form it takes) is to determine whether it's being worn as a costume or for a "legitimate" (in their view) reason.[/QUOTE]

    Interesting... perhaps I need to pay more attention to what others think. Again, like the red beard, the scot is ever present in me... I just presumed I could wear what I want without them having to "make sense of it". Your point is well worth thinking about!
    Last edited by Chris Hills; 23rd October 18 at 11:51 AM.

  6. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Hills View Post
    ...Ok, you paint an ugly picture of wearing the kilt inappropriately as a halloween costume that certainly makes it feel detestable to me. Got that. But let me ask this... and not trying to stir the pot, this is legitimately frustrating for me. What about all of these "ren fairs"? I see all of these fake jacobites wearing pretend shirts and shoes that didn't even exist, which really makes me look stupid in "proper" kiltware. Not trying to get into what is proper or not, just saying that if the majority of those on this thread seem to be against halloween costumes, far more people far more often are going in costume to renaissance fairs. Shouldn't that be equally as annoying to us scots then? Or perhaps I am just missing the distinction (and note I am definitely not trying to be snarky, the above notes about halloween costumes certainly got me rethinking things). Your thoughts?...
    No argument here. I've known people that frequent the big Renaissance Fair, in our area. They have their own idea of costume. I've yet to meet anyone that claimed to be anything historically accurate. No matter what anyone states, I seriously doubt any medievil princesses had wings, or wore combat boots.
    Last edited by Baeau; 24th October 18 at 12:28 PM.
    "I can draw a mouse with a pencil, but I can't draw a pencil with a mouse"

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  8. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Hills View Post
    Again, like the red beard, the scot is ever present in me... I just presumed I could wear what I want without them having to "make sense of it".
    Chris, are you a native-born Scot who immigrated to the US, or are you an American with Scottish ancestry? If the latter, when did your Scots ancestors emigrate?

    I ask because, for most Americans with Scottish ancestry, there is no continuous tradition of kilt-wearing, etc. in their family. Without that continuous tradition, many well-meaning and earnest folks end up embracing myth rather than reality.
    Last edited by davidlpope; 23rd October 18 at 12:26 PM.

  9. #96
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    HA, no but good question! I am american born and bred. My Scots side of the family were in the US before this was a country (living down near you in NC). Far from kilts they were wearing buckskins and opening TN/KY 240 years ago with daniel boone, William Whitley and George Rogers Clark (all ancestors by marriage or blood). Additionally, I infer from your question that you understand scottish history and the alleged kilt we wear today (which is a "modern" construct). I descend from two clans. The border (lowland clan-Home) which probably never wore kilts and their tartan is only dated back to the early 1800's, when a bunch of border clans created their tartans to support the oppressed highlanders. by that time, my Home ancestors were in the colonies and never would have heard of it. My Highland clan Donnachaidh is considered one of the first Celtic clans in Scotland (descended from King Duncan 1). They would have worn the Filamor (belted plaid) though I doubt the tartan we wear existed... and they fought in the jacobite uprisings which (we presume) is why my direct ancestors were in the colonies so early. But any kilts they owned wouldn't have lasted long in the hot, humid southern weather. Perhaps they wore them when they first got here but it wouldn't have lasted long.

    So, I wear a kilt to honor my ancestors, not because it was passed down through 20 generations of americans. I do have a belted plaid as well as several "dress kilts" even though those didn't even exist when my ancestors were in scotland. Others may be making a statement or looking for attention and there is nothing wrong with that. It just isn't my reason for wearing a kilt.

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  11. #97
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    I almost forgot: I will be wearing Highland Dress on Halloween!

    I got hired to pipe at a wedding. So yes the kilt as costume, as part of the show, as an occupational dress, the sine qua non of the Highland piper. But unrelated to the topic of "kilt as Halloween costume".
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

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  13. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    I almost forgot: I will be wearing Highland Dress on Halloween!

    I got hired to pipe at a wedding. So yes the kilt as costume, as part of the show, as an occupational dress, the sine qua non of the Highland piper. But unrelated to the topic of "kilt as Halloween costume".
    Richard.....in your case, it's like the day job. Your working clothes.

    Cheers,
    Steve
    "I can draw a mouse with a pencil, but I can't draw a pencil with a mouse"

  14. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    I almost forgot: I will be wearing Highland Dress on Halloween!

    I got hired to pipe at a wedding. So yes the kilt as costume, as part of the show, as an occupational dress, the sine qua non of the Highland piper. But unrelated to the topic of "kilt as Halloween costume".
    That rang a bell with me! I wore a kilt on Hallowe'en once, in 2009. It was to my daughter's wedding on Maui; I piped too!
    "Touch not the cat bot a glove."

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  16. #100
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    I like the kilt because it looks good, comfort and maybe a slight bit because my paternal ancestor was born in Rothesay, Bute in 1730. I had ancestors in Texas when it was Mexico and most of the others came here after the civil war. I grew up wearing nice cowboy boots, nice hat and about 30 cents worth of clothes in between. The giants causeway is as close as I have been to Scotland other than flying over it. I may not have the right not to be offended if you wear your kilt on Halloween but I am not. Have at it. I have been lucky enough to see a small part of the world. Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow mindedness. I have worn the dishdasha that I got in Baghdad, the BUbu that I got in Senegal on Halloween but not the kilt. I see no difference and would feel hypocritical to deride the practice.

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