Claymore???

**Benning Boy** · 18th November 19, 06:33 PM

The miltary claymore mine, which cuts a wide swath, is supposedly named after the two-handed Scotish sword which also cuts a wide swath. Uncle Sam's military minions don't get things like this wrong😁.

**Me cousin Jack** · 18th November 19, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Benning Boy

The miltary claymore mine, which cuts a wide swath, is supposedly named after the two-handed Scotish sword which also cuts a wide swath. Uncle Sam's military minions don't get things like this wrong😁.

they even write “this side towards enemy” just so there’s no forgetting

**Benning Boy** · 18th November 19, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Me cousin Jack

they even write “this side towards enemy” just so there’s no forgetting

I'm probably the only man alive who was in front of a claymore mine, close enoough to read the instruction, when it was accidentally detonated and lived to tell about it. Not even a scratch. I wonder if i could escape getting hacked down by a claymore sword, it can be steered towards its target. I won't be taking any outlander-ish time travels to find out. I'm happy to believe the two handed sword is the correct claymore.

**Me cousin Jack** · 18th November 19, 10:50 PM

Yikes! You’re a lucky man!

**MacRob46** · 24th November 19, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by neloon

This is a linguistic difficulty that will probably not go away. "claidheamh" is generally taken to be cognate with English "cleaver" and, obviously, a basket-hilted sword is a thruster rather than a cleaver. But both words go back to the Proto-Indo-European word *kladiwos , meaning any kind of sword, the English form having come via Proto-Germanic, German and Dutch. Gaelic/Irish kept the rather vague original meaning of sword whereas English/Scots changed the meaning from a two-handed affair to a basket-hilted sword around 1620
"The true claymore came into use probably late in the fifteenth century and continued until the early part of the seventeenth century, when it was replaced by the single-edged broadsword with a basket hilt, to which the name “claymore” was transferred."
( W. R. Kermack, The Scottish Highlands: A Short History (Edinburgh and London, 1957).

I'm not sure that that helps you very much!

Alan

Alan, I have to disagree with you regarding the basket hilt as a thrusting weapon. While any sword with blade which comes to a point can be used as such, a claymore like the one which is my "icon" for lack of a better term, is definitely a cutting blade, which is true of all these swords hilted in Scotland. Backsword or broadsword, cutting was what it was about. Of course when the opportunity presented itself thrusting was also put into play. The one pictured has a blade that is two inches wide at the hilt and gradually tapers down. It is sharp. The catalog of fighting techniques for use with these swords is light on thrusting.

"Is fhurasda buill 'an treun-fhir aithneachadh." transl..The mighty man's stroke is easily known. This is a Gaelic proverb from Highland Broadsword by Christopher Scott Thompson

DS s Hilt IV.jpg

**Orvis** · 24th November 19, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by MacRob46

Alan, I have to disagree with you regarding the basket hilt as a thrusting weapon. While any sword with blade which comes to a point can be used as such, a claymore like the one which is my "icon" for lack of a better term, is definitely a cutting blade, which is true of all these swords hilted in Scotland. Backsword or broadsword, cutting was what it was about. Of course when the opportunity presented itself thrusting was also put into play. The one pictured has a blade that is two inches wide at the hilt and gradually tapers down. It is sharp. The catalog of fighting techniques for use with these swords is light on thrusting.

"Is fhurasda buill 'an treun-fhir aithneachadh." transl..The mighty man's stroke is easily known. This is a Gaelic proverb from Highland Broadsword by Christopher Scott Thompson

MacRob - I must agree with you about the pre-1745 Highlanders preferring the edge to the point in their swordsmanship. Although the old Highlanders left no swordsmanship manuals, what is known or has been reconstructed (by Mr. Thompson and his colleagues) demonstrates that getting edge on flesh (not in a hacking stroke, which could cause the edge to become stuck in the adversary's bone) and slicing was prevalent.

BTW, the sword you have pictured very much reminds me of one that Donnie Shearer (doing business as the Mad Piper) used to advertise and market. I have two of his basket-hilt swords, and the scabbards are very much like that pictured. Is it, in fact, a Mad Piper broadsword?

**MacRob46** · 25th November 19, 12:14 PM

Yes it is. I am fortunate to have this one, as well as a beak nosed ribbon hilt and a Viking/Scottish transition sword by Donnie. Also privileged to have talked with him on several occasions, closely examined an original Walter Allen sword of his and to have been allowed to use some of his photos of his collections in a book I wrote.

I wish he was still in business.

**Orvis** · 25th November 19, 07:21 PM

I've got two of Donnie's swords: a Glasgow-style basket-hilt with a Del Tin blade, and a regimental backsword (again, with a Del Tin blade). I also have had several conversations with Donnie, not only about swords, but about our experiences as U.S. Marines - Donnie was a combat photographer and I was an infantryman in Vietnam about the same time. I think that I, too, saw the Walter Allen sword you mentioned, and I've also seen two replicas of it - Donnie did beautiful work.