Cap Badge Question

**piperalpha** · 4th January 23, 10:32 PM

Is the man on the right wearing two cap badges? I've been trying to figure out what sort of cap badge he's wearing for some time now. At first I thought it was a luckenbooth brooch. Upon closer examination I thought maybe it was two cap badges. His name is John MacDougall Gillies. I looked up the crests for his clans. MacDougall matches the left side. Gillies wasn't a perfect match. If the cat is horizontal it could work out.

Has anyone seen something like that before?

**Tobus** · 5th January 23, 05:00 AM

It does look like two separate cap badges that are overlapping, but take a look at this page:

https://bagpipe.news/2021/04/26/the-...hering-part-4/

There's a portrait of him just a ways down which shows a similar badge setup, and it makes it look like it's one single badge that's a sort of double-oval design. I'm not sure how accurate the painting would be compared to a photograph, but it certainly muddies the water. Perhaps some of the description of his background on that page would get you closer to finding a badge that matches the photo. Could be a military unit?

**figheadair** · 5th January 23, 05:31 AM

I agree with Tobus, it looks like two badges that touch/are slightly overlapping.

I've only seen one example of a truly double badge. The owner, Duncan Forbes Aikman, then married and thereafter, wore a tripe capbadge as Duncan Forbes Robertson-Aikman.

For some strange reason, the badges are in a different order: Aikman-Forbes-Roberton.

Click image for larger version.

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**piperalpha** · 5th January 23, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by Tobus

It does look like two separate cap badges that are overlapping, but take a look at this page:

https://bagpipe.news/2021/04/26/the-...hering-part-4/

There's a portrait of him just a ways down which shows a similar badge setup, and it makes it look like it's one single badge that's a sort of double-oval design. I'm not sure how accurate the painting would be compared to a photograph, but it certainly muddies the water. Perhaps some of the description of his background on that page would get you closer to finding a badge that matches the photo. Could be a military unit?

Thanks gents, The shape of the cap badge in the portrait is consistent with the photo Figheadair posted. They’re slightly out of round. I’ve never seen that style of cap badge before. It’s much nicer that the art pewter silver line.

**OC Richard** · 5th January 23, 07:45 AM

What an interesting thread!

I hadn't known this was a thing in civilian wear.

I did know of the 1881 military equivalent, when the 91st Foot (Argyllshire Highlanders) were amalgamated with the 93rd Foot (Sutherland Highlanders) and rather than choose one badge or the other they continued to use both.

Sometimes round

and sometimes oval.

**Tobus** · 5th January 23, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by piperalpha

Thanks gents, The shape of the cap badge in the portrait is consistent with the photo Figheadair posted. They’re slightly out of round. I’ve never seen that style of cap badge before. It’s much nicer that the art pewter silver line.

I would assume that the oval shape is specific to double-badges in order to reduce the overall width, so they will still fit on the cockade. This is just a guess, though. I don't recall seeing any single clan badges shaped like that, although I do sort of like the aesthetic.

OC Richard's post got me to thinking. I had wondered whether his military background had anything to do with the badges, but the shape I'm seeing looks like standard clan badges with the belt/buckle and the tail hanging down. That's not a military badge shape, so I would think the best assumption at this point is that they are double clan badges (or some other custom badge in the clan-type style).

**piperalpha** · 5th January 23, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Tobus

I would assume that the oval shape is specific to double-badges in order to reduce the overall width, so they will still fit on the cockade. This is just a guess, though. I don't recall seeing any single clan badges shaped like that, although I do sort of like the aesthetic.

OC Richard's post got me to thinking. I had wondered whether his military background had anything to do with the badges, but the shape I'm seeing looks like standard clan badges with the belt/buckle and the tail hanging down. That's not a military badge shape, so I would think the best assumption at this point is that they are double clan badges (or some other custom badge in the clan-type style).

The coat of arms for MacDougall is a knight’s arm holding a cross. The Gillies coat of arms is a cat. It’s usually standing up but it’s possible it’s standing. The MacDougall coat of arms can be faintly seen on the photo. The Gillies coat of arms isn’t as obvious.

**OC Richard** · 5th January 23, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Tobus

...the shape I'm seeing looks like standard clan badges with the belt/buckle and the tail hanging down.

That's not a military badge shape...

Correct, the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders badges have the crest & motto surrounded by a wreath rather than the strap & buckle with the motto written on the strap.

There have been regiments which have used the strap & buckle style badge, but I've not seen a dual one of those.