Of Two Clans

[grizzbass]

It goes back through my mother's side to arrive quickest at the scots but my dad's side finally gets there. My mom side gets to a male scot back in 1830 but even then it's just a name (Anderson) with only an occupation (cobbler) and death date (1863). Catherine McKenzie Anderson Dye, his wife, then moved to america where a couple of page history of her life was written down by her grandson so at first I knew more of her and wore McKenzie mostly. Even though I don't know any more of him now I tend to divide them equally because he is still my great great great grandfather and I want to honor him.
I view it more of a person thing. Wearing the tartan of an ancestor is to honor them especially since a bunch of english, swiss, germans and danes joined the tree between me and the scots so there is probably little scottish dna left. It isn't to me a DNA thing. They, as well as the germans, danes, english and swiss, are my family. I admit I'm more excited about the Scots and Danes (yea vikings) but have thought about lederhosen every so often (but don't drink so would seems weird) and have always been a fan of english history and love the dickens festival here in riverside. It's coming up next month and I can't wait.
I've never joined a clan org so it hasn't mattered but if I did I guess I'd go with their rules although being paternal based does strike me as something that needs to change.

[Silmakhor]

Perhaps my dear wife's example would be considered more traditional? My wife before she married her first husband wore her father's Clan tartan and no other. When in due course she married she then wore her husband's tartan and no other. After his untimely death, she continued to wear his tartan, until she (thank goodness) married me and now, purely voluntarily I may add, she wears my tartan and no other. Her children from the first marriage, when old enough, were offered the choice of their father's tartan, or mine. Quite correctly in my view, they decided to wear their late father's tartan.

Some of you may be interested that both my wife and me have several different Clan tartans that we could wear, through family connections, if we so choose. In fact, my family for several generations choose to wear just one. We are not alone in Scotland in doing so and I would suggest, that is traditional thinking here.

(emphasis mine)


I think this gets back to the whole "strong affiliation" thing. Neither of my parents ever wore kilts, and as far as I know none of my ancestors have. My surname is found on the sept lists of a certain large and "sinister" clan associated with soup cans and Argyll. So, by the advice of the board here, I'd choose Campbell. But the patrilineal ancestors were likely Ulster scots, having little to do with Highland culture. I'd love to wear "the" family tartan, but such a thing doesn't exist in reality.

If people in my family had worn a particular tartan, and I had an emotional connection to them, I'd of course honor that. I envy those who partake in a living tradition.

[Silmakhor]

I admit I'm more excited about the Scots and Danes (yea vikings) but have thought about lederhosen every so often (but don't drink so would seems weird)

Think further "north" than pants. This jacket is a trachtenjanker, a traditional jacket worn in Germany and Austria. In this case worn with a kilt, but works equally well regular trousers.

I happen to think it looks great with a kilt, but I'm weird like that ;)

[Jock Scot]

(emphasis mine)


I think this gets back to the whole "strong affiliation" thing. Neither of my parents ever wore kilts, and as far as I know none of my ancestors have. My surname is found on the sept lists of a certain large and "sinister" clan associated with soup cans and Argyll. So, by the advice of the board here, I'd choose Campbell. But the patrilineal ancestors were likely Ulster scots, having little to do with Highland culture. I'd love to wear "the" family tartan, but such a thing doesn't exist in reality.

If people in my family had worn a particular tartan, and I had an emotional connection to them, I'd of course honor that. I envy those who partake in a living tradition.

Good points raised here, but you know, not all of us in Scotland are MacSomethings, not all of us, even in the Highlands of Scotland, have a "family" tartan and not all Scotsmen, even if they have a tartan connected name, want to wear the kilt and don't even know, or care, that their name is connected to a particular tartan. Some of those do choose a "universal" tartan, some might choose an "area tartan" and some might just pick a tartan that they happen to like.

I am going to generalise now. If truth be known, one really does not want to get too wound up with this "strong affiliation" idea. Believe me once you have sat through an hour or two listening to an oh so boring tartan justifation lecture in the pub, coffee shop, wherever, looking at faded pictures of a second cousin four times removed belonging to a complete stranger that "proves" that he is entitled to wear the MacKarrot tartan. "Surely" I can hear you say, "no one does that?" I am afraid they do, all too often and one wonders why they bother. In truth if you want to wear a particular tartan then wear it and frankly no one else apart from those that are interested, care a jot as long as the subject is not brought up in public. In real life, very few in Scotland are really that interested what tartans others are wearing.

[Silmakhor]

Good points raised here, but you know, not all of us in Scotland are MacSomethings, not all of us, even in the Highlands of Scotland, have a "family" tartan and not all Scotsmen, even if they have a tartan connected name, want to wear the kilt and don't even know, or care, that their name is connected to a particular tartan. Some of those do choose a "universal" tartan, some might choose an "area tartan" and some might just pick a tartan that they happen to like.

I am going to generalise now. If truth be known, one really does not want to get too wound up with this "strong affiliation" idea. Believe me once you have sat through an hour or two listening to an oh so boring tartan justifation lecture in the pub, coffee shop, wherever, looking at faded pictures of a second cousin four times removed belonging to a complete stranger that "proves" that he is entitled to wear the MacKarrot tartan. "Surely" I can hear you say, "no one does that?" I am afraid they do, all too often and one wonders why they bother. In truth if you want to wear a particular tartan then wear it and frankly no one else apart from those that are interested, care a jot as long as the subject is not brought up in public. In real life, very few in Scotland are really that interested what tartans others are wearing.

No disagreement with that. We're discussing choosing tartans, which the thread started with - rather than proselytizing them, which is uncouth and best done in private ;)

[Jock Scot]

No disagreement with that. We're discussing choosing tartans, which the thread started with - rather than proselytizing them, which is uncouth and best done in private ;)

Yes we are discussing choosing a tartan, but one does not need to agonise over it.

[FossilHunter]

(emphasis mine)


I think this gets back to the whole "strong affiliation" thing. Neither of my parents ever wore kilts, and as far as I know none of my ancestors have. My surname is found on the sept lists of a certain large and "sinister" clan associated with soup cans and Argyll. So, by the advice of the board here, I'd choose Campbell. But the patrilineal ancestors were likely Ulster scots, having little to do with Highland culture. I'd love to wear "the" family tartan, but such a thing doesn't exist in reality.

If people in my family had worn a particular tartan, and I had an emotional connection to them, I'd of course honor that. I envy those who partake in a living tradition.

As the Ulsters Scots have little connection to the highlands and given your other connections, I personally would wear Campbell. The clan is firmly highland with strong clan associations (if one is into that) and the tartan is both attractive and ubiquitous (Campbell and black watch are different shades of the same tartan).

And that’s coming from a Macdonald. ;)

My thinking on tartan precedence (which is just my opinion) goes:
-closest male highland clan connection
-closest highland clan connection
-uncertain Scottish ancestry, I would choose a universal tartan associated with Scotland (probably Scottish national, which I like)

After that I personally wouldn’t wear a kilt but I suppose I would just choose any non-clan tartan that I liked.

[TheVintageLibertine]

(emphasis mine)


I think this gets back to the whole "strong affiliation" thing. Neither of my parents ever wore kilts, and as far as I know none of my ancestors have. My surname is found on the sept lists of a certain large and "sinister" clan associated with soup cans and Argyll. So, by the advice of the board here, I'd choose Campbell. But the patrilineal ancestors were likely Ulster scots, having little to do with Highland culture. I'd love to wear "the" family tartan, but such a thing doesn't exist in reality.

If people in my family had worn a particular tartan, and I had an emotional connection to them, I'd of course honor that. I envy those who partake in a living tradition.

I don’t think your situation is uncommon. My grandparents, for example, while being aware that their families had come from Scotland to the U.S., we’re not particularly interested in Scottish cultural traditions. They had a vague affinity for all things British, but that didn’t come from family tradition; it came from them having lived in England when my grandfather was stationed there. And the closest they ever came to wearing anything “Scottish” was Harris tweed.

I think the advice about not agonizing over which tartan to wear [is] spot on. If you want to wear a kilt, just pick a tartan that speaks to your for whatever reason.

Edits: for grammar

[OC Richard]

Be aware, the Wilson tartan was an invention of Wilson's of Bannockburn who produced many of the tartans in the 19th century.

And also in the 18th century, the firm began in 1759.

Wilsons themselves were in the business of designing and selling cloth, for which they made no "Clan" claims, there being no such concept in the 18th century when most of the Wilson designs were created. Their designs were assigned numbers, and in some cases also known by the name of a customer, or sometimes a place, or an historical person.

It was their customers who turned #64 into Graham of Montrose, #43 into MacPherson, and so on.

The Royal Visit to Scotland in 1822 cemented the "Clan tartan" idea in the popular imagination, as Clan after Clan grabbed existing numbered Wilsons designs and anointed them their "Clan tartans".

About your tartans:

Wilson: This appears in the Wilson 1819 Pattern Book as "Janet Wilson sett" and was evidently designed by William Wilson and named for his wife Janet Wilson nee Patterson. It could have been designed for the occasion of their wedding in the 1750s or perhaps as late as around 1780.

Wallace: All I can find are statements that it "appears in early collections" and "was in use in the late 18th century". However which "early collections" aren't mentioned.

[BigRob]

Thank you all for the advice. It will be very helpful in selecting tartans for future wear.