Tartan Tales - BBC TV series

[jsrnephdoc]

Not DNA but Isotope Analysis. https://www.futurelearn.com/info/cou.../0/steps/67901

I've just begun to explore that, but from my VERY limited initial reading it seems that the locator precision of such interrogation might be more at the large regional, climatological rather than local level.

But also, that it might be among the strong nails in the coffin of the bizarre misinterpretation of anthropology that led to the nonsense of "eat for your blood type."

I also discovered that the V&A Dundee Museum's tartan exhibition was (or, hopefully, still IS) traveling internationally.

Of course, the current state of affairs in the US might make stops here dangerous. If the exhibit were to attract sufficient attention, our current chief executive would proclaim that it's "fake history," because after all, HE invented tartan—the only difference from the 'fakes' being that it can't bear his surname in its appellation unless woven with golden threads

[Jock Scot]

Which was PRECISELY the point of my own post. Sorry you didn't catch the irony literally dripping from my terminal "!".

The irony completely passed me by! Perhaps this country boy does not do irony very often?

[Jock Scot]

I've just begun to explore that, but from my VERY limited initial reading it seems that the locator precision of such interrogation might be more at the large regional, climatological rather than local level.

But also, that it might be among the strong nails in the coffin of the bizarre misinterpretation of anthropology that led to the nonsense of "eat for your blood type."

I also discovered that the V&A Dundee Museum's tartan exhibition was (or, hopefully, still IS) traveling internationally.

Of course, the current state of affairs in the US might make stops here dangerous. If the exhibit were to attract sufficient attention, our current chief executive would proclaim that it's "fake history," because after all, HE invented tartan—the only difference from the 'fakes' being that it can't bear his surname in its appellation unless woven with golden threads

In. truth on a third or forth look at your post above, I really did not see/read your last paragraph. How I did that I cannot explain. For that I apologise. However, now that I have read it, I personally would call it an exercise in sarcasm rather than irony. But please, let us not split hairs.

Now let us get back to kilts!

[jsrnephdoc]

please, let us not split hairs.

Were I to do so, at least I'd have two.

[OC Richard]

And I never knew previously that one could determine where 16th century sheep called home...

It's done with ancient human skeletons, you can find out where a person was raised.

This has, for one thing, opened our eyes to the mobility of people within the Roman world.

A Roman cemetery in York revealed that people were from North Africa, Syria, all over the Empire. (York was the capitol of the Roman Empire at one point.)

Another cool thing is that by analysing teeth of archaic humans we can trace waves of Bubonic Plague going back tens of thousands of years. And that inner-ear bones are exceptionally DNA-rich allowing us to do full-genome sequencing of Neanderthals, Denisovans, and modern Humans also going back tens of thousands of years.

A lot of these breakthroughs are only a decade old.

[jsrnephdoc]

It's done with ancient human skeletons, you can find out where a person was raised.

This has, for one thing, opened our eyes to the mobility of people within the Roman world.

A Roman cemetery in York revealed that people were from North Africa, Syria, all over the Empire. (York was the capitol of the Roman Empire at one point.)

Another cool thing is that by analysing teeth of archaic humans we can trace waves of Bubonic Plague going back tens of thousands of years. And that inner-ear bones are exceptionally DNA-rich allowing us to do full-genome sequencing of Neanderthals, Denisovans, and modern Humans also going back tens of thousands of years.

A lot of these breakthroughs are only a decade old.

When Peter MacDonald corrected my misunderstandings about the tartan history exhibit at the design museum in Dundee (it was NOT a permanent part of the museum's offerings, partly because some of the pieces were on loan from other owners), he also corrected my misunderstanding of the techniques used to sort out where the sheep who donated the coats off their backs for the Glen Affric weave did their grazing, and matching that to collagen samples from sheep living in different areas. It was based on isotopic analysis of the carbon isotopes in the cloth, NOT on DNA sequencing. I need to look into that more, because I have NO understanding of how precisely that can identify a region. I know the grass in Las Vegas (in the few places where it's not illegal to have a lawn not manufactured from plastic) differs from the grass abundant in Sonoma County and the Montana rockies, but I have a LOT to learn about how it's done and how precisely it can identify regional origin.

I suspect isotopic analysis may well have been among the tools used to dispel the nonsense in the "eat for your blood type" fad.

[OC Richard]

Here's an explanation I found online. I read about this in connexion with anthropology, but I assume it works on sheep as well.

Isotope Analysis

This is one of the most effective tools for tracking movement during a person's life.

How it works: As children grow, their bodies absorb specific ratios of isotopes (like strontium and oxygen) from the local water and food into their tooth enamel and bones.

What it reveals: These ratios act as a permanent chemical signature of the geographical area where they lived while that tissue was forming.

Tracking migration: Because tooth enamel doesn't change after childhood, but bone tissue constantly regenerates, scientists can compare the two to see if someone moved.

[jsrnephdoc]

Here's an explanation I found online. I read about this in connexion with anthropology, but I assume it works on sheep as well.

Isotope Analysis

This is one of the most effective tools for tracking movement during a person's life.

How it works: As children grow, their bodies absorb specific ratios of isotopes (like strontium and oxygen) from the local water and food into their tooth enamel and bones.

What it reveals: These ratios act as a permanent chemical signature of the geographical area where they lived while that tissue was forming.

Tracking migration: Because tooth enamel doesn't change after childhood, but bone tissue constantly regenerates, scientists can compare the two to see if someone moved.

Thanks for that.

Two clarifications:

1. I'm not exactly certain about this, but it's obvious there are no bone or tooth enamel fragments in that cloth. My understanding is that the testing that was done to sort out just where the sheep munched grass was the ratio of Carbon-12 to Carbon-13 in collagen in its wool fibers.
2. The actual way that location can be inferred by isotopic analysis is not because the sheep absorb "specific ratios" of isotopes, but because the environmentally prevalent ratios differ in different regions, so the region where they grazed can be inferred from determining that ratio. Of course, since we don't have the 16th century sheep to query, we cannot make accurate inferences about whether they changed addresses during their lifetimes, but that sort of migration was of course distinctly uncommon then.

What I still DON'T know (but will endeavor to learn) is just HOW precisely one can infer the radius of where they grew up and had the haircuts that generated the fabric.

[OC Richard]

Right, the assumption being that the sheep used for the tartan didn't, say, begin their life in North Africa and move to Britain to further their career, like the humans had done.

[Jock Scot]

Right, the assumption being that the sheep used for the tartan didn't, say, begin their life in North Africa and move to Britain to further their career, like the humans had done.

I wouldn't be so sure. In my younger days I used to stalk deer on quite a lot of estates around the shores of Highland Scotland and on some of them there were populations of wild goats and some non-native looking sheep. These animals were reputed to be relatives of survivors from some of the wrecked Spanish Ships from The Spanish Armada(1588). Going on some of the swarthy dark eyed humans who also lived(live) around those areas, the same might be said of them too! Of course, there was no DNA evidence that I am aware of, to assist one way or another!