All in the (Robertson) Family (the tartan, not the TV comedy)

[Jock Scot]

I heard the story, maybe too good not to be true, about the shopkeeper in Scotland who, when an American tourist asked after a necktie in a "clan tartan" that didn't exist, grabbed a badly faded tie that had been sitting in the display window for years and handed it to the tourist saying "oh we just happen to have a tie in that tartan here in the window!"

I have not heard that story before! I can imagine it being done, though!

[jsrnephdoc]

There is no evidence to support the note on the SRT about the inclusion of the white line.

(and)

Given the commercial use of this tartan for some 200 years it would be regrettable if the Clan Society/the Chief sought to restrict it now.

I've continued my quest for evidence of the (white line) variant in actual use in contemporary times, and now I have some. Here's a photo from a recent clan gathering in Pitlochry. Check out the chieftain's kilt:

(the white line is a bit more obvious at full size on the web:

https://donnachaidh.com/pubd/images/...op1400x700.jpg

[NHhighlander]

In the back of my mind I have fragments of a quote mentioning that, at the time that it begat an (invented) expectation that clans would have "their own" tartans, the Robertson chief was going around looking for his corresponding information, not finding much that was reliable in that quest. If that memory is accurate, then the Robertson (and probably Duncan) tartans are kind of a reconstruction, more likely. That the Duncan tartan is not unlike the tartan for the Loyal Clan Donnachie Volunteers raised in 1803 (a.k.a. Robertson Hunting Ancient) sort of covers that one with some specific time and date for its origin and authenticity. I volunteered to marry a Duncan, I'm pretty much ancient by now, strive to be loyal... I'll be legit in wearing it .

As to a white stripe, apparently some tour guides say that tartans have a white component only if the corresponding clan was present at Culloden...

If wife and I make it to Pitlochry in '26 (that was the intention, but there are some recent health complications), I'll be sure to pop the question to the chief. From the recent pronunciamiento by an Al Roberston (?), regarding membership that was shared with me (i.e., just sign up, anybody!), I have a feeling that he'll be cool about it.

Did you manage to get the thread count from the Tartan Register? As far as I know, registering for getting information has always been free, they email you the threadcounts, the fee mentioned is if you're registering a new pattern. I just downloaded the count for the Robertson (white line). To avoid giving someone an excuse to make things complicated, I won't post here but send you that by PM

[OC Richard]

I've continued my quest for evidence of the (white line) variant in actual use in contemporary times, and now I have some. Here's a photo from a recent clan gathering in Pitlochry. Check out the chieftain's kilt.

Very interesting, so somebody has woven it with the white line.

Have you checked all the various weavers to see if the white-line version is available?

Another thing to find out would be if the Chief regards it as his personal tartan.

If nobody currently weaves it and the Chief allows anyone to wear it perhaps you could get some fellow Robertsons to go in on a bespoke weave.

[cessna152towser]

This discussion of a white line version of the Robertson tartan is an interesting read as the Chieftain's kilt in the photo looks very similar to the Cunningham sett.
I recall manning a Clan Cunningham booth at an event some years ago when a gentleman wearing an identical kilt to mine approached the stall insisting that he was a Robertson and that I was also wearing a Robertson kilt.
I disagreed with him at the time, but maybe he did have a valid point, the two setts do indeed look very similar.

[NHhighlander]

This discussion of a white line version of the Robertson tartan is an interesting read as the Chieftain's kilt in the photo looks very similar to the Cunningham sett.
I recall manning a Clan Cunningham booth at an event some years ago when a gentleman wearing an identical kilt to mine approached the stall insisting that he was a Robertson and that I was also wearing a Robertson kilt.
I disagreed with him at the time, but maybe he did have a valid point, the two setts do indeed look very similar.

Gah!!
like, when somebody brings in facts that do not fit (and that are probably accurate). Forced me to look...
Unless I'm seriously mistaken (not unlikely), what Mr Robertson is wearing (or/and the lady right next) doesn't look like any of the tartans offered by the Register for Robertson https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/qR...ring=robertson certainly not the White Line version "traditionally worn by the Chief of the Clan and his family." https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/ta...tails?ref=3528. No green... And it's my impression also it's the "Robertson" I've seen in NH. Very red.

And, yes indeed, identical to the Cunningham ones https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/qR...ing=Cunningham

while the standard bearers seem to me to be wearing canonical Loyal Clan Donnachie Volunteers tartan, a.k.a. Robertson Hunting.

BTW, somebody was asking recently about different sett sizes, this picture could be used to clarify and nail tight the point that there ain't no single way to address sett size.

Also and contrasting, elegant that the way their kilts were put together using huge setts gets one single white cross on the standard bearers' aprons.

[jsrnephdoc]

Unless I'm seriously mistaken (not unlikely), what Mr Robertson is wearing (or/and the lady right next) doesn't look like any of the tartans offered by the Register for Robertson https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/qR...ring=robertson certainly not the White Line version "traditionally worn by the Chief of the Clan and his family." https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/ta...tails?ref=3528. No green... And it's my impression also it's the "Robertson" I've seen in NH. Very red.

I don't remember the exact statement he made, but Peter Macdonald did suggest to me that the notion the "white line" version of the so-red tartan was restricted to use by the Chieftain and his immediate family is unsubstantiated folklore, but the "evidence" that no one seems to be weaving it yet the chieftain has a kilt made from it does suggest that. Enough so that I wouldn't wear in anywhere around Pitlochry without permission first.

BTW, somebody was asking recently about different sett sizes, this picture could be used to clarify and nail tight the point that there ain't no single way to address sett size.

I think the mills are largely responsible for that. There are SO many derivatives of "Robertson" tartan (both red and hunting) that are inventoried by the mills with fanciful adjectives; e.g., "muted," "weathered," "dark," "ancient," and on and on, that USA Kilts offers almost FORTY different options just in wool. Most of the variations don't appear in the Registry because what varies is the color palate. Of course, the sett size will differ based on fabric weight as well.

The latter probably accounts for part of the difference between the Chieftain's kilt and my dad's. My sister's kilt is likely in one of the "muted" reds. The photo of my dad adjacent to the Chieftain and my sister next to my dad itself is almost 40 years old, so trying to sort out which mill made which fabric is probably fruitless, but OCR's suggestion that I query ALL the major mills' websites before giving up on finding a source for the White Line version certainly has merit once I sort out that wearing it in Pitlochry would not be more offensive than showing up at a clan gathering wearing a utilikilt "pleated to the/a banana."

[OC Richard]

At least the versions and thread-counts given in The Setts Of The Scottish Tartans of Cunningham and Robertson are clearly different, not just in colour but also in structure.

Cunningham is said to be a Vestiarium Scoticum (Allen brothers) design, and it does follow their oft-used 2-stripe format, in this case two fat black stripes on a red ground. In between the two fat black stripes there's a narrow black stripe, and in the red field there's a white stripe flanked by two fine blue lines. (Take a look at VS designs like Barclay, Brodie, Bruce, Cameron (red), Erskine, MacKinnon, MacLachlan (yellow), Ramsay, Oliphant, and Wemyss for more examples.)

Robertson, while superficially similar, has a more complicated structure: wide bands of green and blue, the two bands flanked by narrow blue stripes, and a green/white/green triple stripe in the middle of the red ground.

In any case many "modern colours" weaves have blue and green so dark that they can hardly be distinguished from each other, or sometimes even from black, in photographs. I suspect your Chief photo is an example of that.