Are Sashes for Men or Not???

[Hamish]

Where's Hamish? We could use his input on this about now.

I'm here, Bubba. I'm here! Never fear!

The time available to me for logging on has been considerably reduced in recent weeks and so it's taking me much longer to plough through all the posts when I do get here!

What can I say? Matt has said everything, and more, that I would have offered had I been here on time, so I'll leave it at that......

[highlander_Daz]

Sir Roberts quote "therse no right or wrong way to wear highland dress" Im afraid its not 100% accurate, Highland dress is a very important part of Scots/Irish/Welsh/ Celtic culture and as such deserves a bit of thought and reverence as some people might be offended by someone not paying proper attention to detail, In Scotland you would not see someone wearing a "sash" a fly plaid is sometimes worn by Grooms and pipers have one that wraps around and hangs like a fly plaid, please forget about sashes , a well fitting kilt matching hose and shoes nd a Jacobite shirt or argyll jacket is plenty, you start adding all sorts of brigadoonary and you risk being branded a bounder!!

[macwilkin]

Sir Roberts quote "therse no right or wrong way to wear highland dress" Im afraid its not 100% accurate, Highland dress is a very important part of Scots/Irish/Welsh/ Celtic culture and as such deserves a bit of thought and reverence as some people might be offended by someone not paying proper attention to detail, In Scotland you would not see someone wearing a "sash" a fly plaid is sometimes worn by Grooms and pipers have one that wraps around and hangs like a fly plaid, please forget about sashes , a well fitting kilt matching hose and shoes nd a Jacobite shirt or argyll jacket is plenty, you start adding all sorts of brigadoonary and you risk being branded a bounder!!

Well said, Daz. Whilst there are no "rules", as many have mentioned, there are customs, traditions and precedent for wearing traditional Highland attire. Besides Jimmy's mantra of "know your tartan", it's good to also know these customs and traditions when questions arise from the kilted gentry and non kilt-wearers alike.

Someone mentioned the "mini fly plaid", which is a completely different creature than a sash.

Cheers,

Todd

[jkdesq]

Someone mentioned the "mini fly plaid", which is a completely different creature than a sash.

Guess that would be me who mentioned the "mini fly plaid". Now, I totally agree with the "less is more" school and would concurr that fly plaids are best left to pipers and, maybe, bridegrooms. Also, I totally agree that of all the "novo" kilts out there, sportkilt is the last one I would suggest to anyone looking for a kilt, unless it was for a lark (ie. group going golfing or something) or very, very casual use (ie. changing out of athletic wear when no change room is available or sitting about the house).

I take issue with our friend's statement that a "mini fly plaid" is a "completely different creature than a sash". www.scotyard.com says that their "mini fly plaid" is 12" x 54". Sportkilt has not given the dimensions to its "sash" but the floral sash that I bought for my wife from Burnett-Struth was, low and behold, 12" X 54". I think it would be difficult for anyone to UNDERSTATE the physical difference between a "mini fly plaid" and a sash.

My point in my impugned post above (last post on page 4) was that we should not over-emphasis on what things are called. Our friend who started this thread was concerned that he should not use his piece of fabric (I would guess approximately 12" x 54"), because sportkilt opted to call it a "sash". Whether called "sash" or "plaid", there is a "highland dress tradition" that would allow our friend to wear this piece of tartan over his shoulder. Further, he need not fear being thought of as a "highland dame" merely because he has this fabric, called a "sash" by Sportkilt, on his person.

A kilt by any other name (ie. skirt) is still a pleated unbiforcated garment.

[macwilkin]

I take issue with our friend's statement that a "mini fly plaid" is a "completely different creature than a sash". www.scotyard.com says that their "mini fly plaid" is 12" x 54". Sportkilt has not given the dimensions to its "sash" but the floral sash that I bought for my wife from Burnett-Struth was, low and behold, 12" X 54". I think it would be difficult for anyone to UNDERSTATE the physical difference between a "mini fly plaid" and a sash.

My apologies, sir -- I assumed you were referring to a fly plaid, and some companies are offering smaller versions it to simulate the look of a traditional fly plaid.

Cheers,

Todd

[beerbecue]

I would think, also, given the aforementioned sash v. mini fly plaid distinctions (apart from size) in the two posts above, that another, more distinguishing characteristic is simply the way they are worn.

A sash goes across, the chest, no? Whilst a mini fly plaid simply hangs off the shoulder??

Given the same piece of material (in this case 12x54), perhaps how it is worn is more important in determining what it is and what it is called?? Additionally, perhaps a sash would also be constructed differently, if it had accoutrements intended to clasp or attach the two ends at a point near the waist, while the mini fly plaid should lack such fastenings...

Anyway, the only sashes I have are related to the BSA and OA. I have material to make a fly plaid and/or mini fly plaid, but have not yet done so....

Isn't it interesting how long this thread has lasted????

[Tiran]

Ah, the things that amuse me when I get bored. Like posting in forums lol. Just a couple comments I wanted to make. Might as well start chronologically lol.

The pic in the first post with the note looks kinda ren-fair. It is recreationist/living history, SCA specific, and as many commented later about uniforms, thats what it is. It identifies him as having a job and being on duty, specifically being there to help new comers.

Then M.A.C said
"At the very end of the sixteenth century, the plaid began to be worn belted by the men. At this time, they were made from two lengths of cloth, some 4 or 5 yards long and 25" to 30" wide, seamed together to make one peice that was 50" to 60" wide. The length was gathered into folds and belted around the waist. The part that hung from the waist to the knee would later develop into the kilt. The upper portion was worn draped in various ways about the shoulders. This garment was called the feileadh-mhor (large wrap) or "belted plaid."

These are fun to wear. I spend wear them alot at SCA events. The most comfortable and useful way to wear the upper section is pinned across the chest, which looks a lot like a sash. (Probably where the whole issue started)

Not the best pic for the purpose, but none of my standing ones have been scanned.

It gives you a handy pouch to carry things in, making it by far the best camping partying clothing ever. I can easy get a six pack and a bottle of sambuca (for example ) in it and you can hardly tell. Plus its a kilt, so when your drinking any bush is your friend. :mrgreen:
Isn't experiental archeology fun? lol

The last bit was just Sir Roberts bit about the colour blind drag queen. To true, however historically, he was probably showing courtesy/alligances and trying not to miss or offend someone. As well earlier to that, they often didn't care about coordination. Cloth was to expensive for that (do you know how long it takes to hand weave enough to make a reasonable amount of clothing?) So you showed of by wearing all your most expensive things together (like so many white trash still do).

No I have said my piece, which really had no purpose other that to hear myself speak (so to speak lol), although I hope someone finds any of it interesting. And shocked that I got the pic to work.