What's up with the sgian dubh nowadays!?!?!

[auld argonian]

...just a dumb newbie question (two questions, actually):

...could someone please give me a phonetic pronunciation of sgain dubh so that I don't make an *** of myself if the topic comes up in conversation...

...and would the plural be "sgains dubh" or "sgain dubhs"?

I had a buddy who was very up on Gaelic languages and I once pinned him down on why some of the words are pronounced so differently from their spelling even when they are "anglicized" for consumption by the unenlightened...he had no good answer for the question...go figure.

best

argonian

[Dreadbelly]

Skeen DOO.

DOO should rhyme with NOO! Which can only be properly said with a Scottish burr.

[Archangel]

...just a dumb newbie question (two questions, actually):

...could someone please give me a phonetic pronunciation of sgain dubh so that I don't make an *** of myself if the topic comes up in conversation...

...and would the plural be "sgains dubh" or "sgain dubhs"?

I had a buddy who was very up on Gaelic languages and I once pinned him down on why some of the words are pronounced so differently from their spelling even when they are "anglicized" for consumption by the unenlightened...he had no good answer for the question...go figure.

best

argonian

Dread's close enough, there's sort of a skip in the first word "ski" then "yen" or "yan", the NOO sound sort of goes nasal on the first O and slides to normal. The k sound is not too sharp that's why you sometimes see the hard "g" sound. It's in between there. The "y" is barely there. That's why it's a different language and varied spelling for the English. There's a lot of lilts, pauses, and emphasis. All of which vary from area to area. The basic rule is to say it very fast and try and make it all one word.

Plural, most would accept skean dhus, Scottish Gaelic plural is usually an "ach" suffix. I'm not sure what the absolute grammar rule would be. Try, "Please give me a skean dhu, and while you're at it, give me two more." (I know, I stole that from some president, I think.)

[An t-Ileach]

...just a dumb newbie question (two questions, actually):

...could someone please give me a phonetic pronunciation of sgain dubh so that I don't make an *** of myself if the topic comes up in conversation...

...and would the plural be "sgains dubh" or "sgain dubhs"?

I had a buddy who was very up on Gaelic languages and I once pinned him down on why some of the words are pronounced so differently from their spelling even when they are "anglicized" for consumption by the unenlightened...he had no good answer for the question...go figure.

best

argonian

Argonian,

We're talking anglicisms here, really. So Archangel's phonetics are as close as any. I'd plump for "sgian dubhs" in the plural.

Gaelic does have a system about its orthography, it's just not an English system, which is why it often seems incomprehensible. And why the way a word sounds seems nothing like the way it's written - such as "man from Skye" sounds like 'skee un okh' but is written sgitheanach or sgiathanach: or a "man from Islay" sounds like "un chee lyokh" but is written an t-Ìleach.

Actually, strictly speaking and a matter of interest, the "black" part should be written dhubh (and pronounced with a sort of gentle gargling sound 'ghoo') as sgian is a feminine noun, and the plural in Gaelic would be sgèine-dhubh ("skay nyu ghoo").

But in our everyday lives we are dealing with a loan-word into English, so sgian-dubh and sgian-dubhs, in my opinion, works fine. It's like two other loan-words from Gaelic: "galore" and "smashing" (I don't know whether you have this in American English, it means "really good" or something) - we wouldn't expect to see them written as gu leor or 's math sin, although they sound very much like they do in English.

[Archangel]

btw and completely o/t: I have my google search page set to Scottish Gaelic, not that I understand any of it, it's just sort of comforting to see.