Is Black Watch a "Generic" Tartan?

[MacConnachie]

Thanks, Todd.

I see clearly that the information I had on how the Black and Tans were originally formed was in error. The stories stated that there was a large criminal element within some of the groups, and that there were Black and Tans recruits from England and Scotland in the main.

I had never seen a picture or other representation of a Black and Tan in a kilt, so, as I earlier indicated my information was limited. I just did not comprehend how limited, and how erroneous, it was.

So, having discussed what these different groups and regiments were NOT, do you have historical information as to activities of the Royal Highland Regiment which may have directly affected the Irish? Which elements of the Regiment were posted in Ireland at various points in time? Was the recruitment of Irish boys into the Black Watch (and other regiments) by the "much beloved" recruiting sergeants (is there a sarcasm smiley?) a contributing factor in the intense dislike some Irish have for the Black Watch?

Thanks, again, for setting me straight.
Mac

[highlander_Daz]

Ive never known Irish people to be offended by Black Watch Tartan and Ive attended many "Irish" weddings and seen many people wearing black watch, maybe its a bit of coloniolism creeping in there.
The 42nd Highland Regiment are heros to the people of scotland regardless of what may have happened in the past. There conduct in Iraq recently only served to underline this upon entring the "triangle of death" a senior black watch officer emerged from his tank, removed his body armour and helmet. donned a Glengarry and piped the regiment into the war zone. my great great uncle who was in the Black watch was killed in the first world war. and was buried in France. to anyone who is offended by the Tartan of such brave fighting men should, in my opinion go and lie down in a dark room and reflect that all the freedoms we enjoy today are only available to us because of the sacrifice of these and others like them.

[Dreadbelly]

Ive never known Irish people to be offended by Black Watch Tartan and Ive attended many "Irish" weddings and seen many people wearing black watch, maybe its a bit of coloniolism creeping in there.
The 42nd Highland Regiment are heros to the people of scotland regardless of what may have happened in the past. There conduct in Iraq recently only served to underline this upon entring the "triangle of death" a senior black watch officer emerged from his tank, removed his body armour and helmet. donned a Glengarry and piped the regiment into the war zone. my great great uncle who was in the Black watch was killed in the first world war. and was buried in France. to anyone who is offended by the Tartan of such brave fighting men should, in my opinion go and lie down in a dark room and reflect that all the freedoms we enjoy today are only available to us because of the sacrifice of these and others like them.

Well said.

[Ranald]

Ive never known Irish people to be offended by Black Watch Tartan and Ive attended many "Irish" weddings and seen many people wearing black watch, maybe its a bit of coloniolism creeping in there.
The 42nd Highland Regiment are heros to the people of scotland regardless of what may have happened in the past. There conduct in Iraq recently only served to underline this upon entring the "triangle of death" a senior black watch officer emerged from his tank, removed his body armour and helmet. donned a Glengarry and piped the regiment into the war zone. my great great uncle who was in the Black watch was killed in the first world war. and was buried in France. to anyone who is offended by the Tartan of such brave fighting men should, in my opinion go and lie down in a dark room and reflect that all the freedoms we enjoy today are only available to us because of the sacrifice of these and others like them.

Bravo.

[Archangel]

Ive never known Irish people to be offended by Black Watch Tartan and Ive attended many "Irish" weddings and seen many people wearing black watch, maybe its a bit of coloniolism creeping in there.
The 42nd Highland Regiment are heros to the people of scotland regardless of what may have happened in the past. There conduct in Iraq recently only served to underline this upon entring the "triangle of death" a senior black watch officer emerged from his tank, removed his body armour and helmet. donned a Glengarry and piped the regiment into the war zone. my great great uncle who was in the Black watch was killed in the first world war. and was buried in France. to anyone who is offended by the Tartan of such brave fighting men should, in my opinion go and lie down in a dark room and reflect that all the freedoms we enjoy today are only available to us because of the sacrifice of these and others like them.

Yes, and I like it, tool

The point about colonialism is very important to most of the discussions on this board. A lot of the conflicts here are based on some mythology about over there. Without going into it, there has been a lot of censorship that is only being lifted now. Best to make sure of the facts first. Last note on this drifting topic focus: there were Highland regiments stationed in Ireland during the '70s at least. They've always been buffers and I'll leave that there. Understand that they would not have been kilted in any case.

Yes, Black Watch is generic, it would be nice to have a military link and the respect, but that's not a condition of sale. Everybody has a military link somewhere.

[highlander_Daz]

The situation in Northern Ireland has nothing to do with the Tartan of the Black watch, as a British Regiment the Black Watch and most other regiments have served at some stage in Northen Ireland, regardless of rights or wrongs of the "troubles" those soldiers would perform their duty to the best of their ablity, as many many Scots are of Irish descent I know that they would have an "opinion" about the troubles, but they are professional soldiers and they would do what they were orded to do regardless of personal opinion. As would US or Canadian or ANZACS or whatever. I am a big admirer of all our Allied armed forces. I have a particular affection for Highland regiments so if im "off on one" then it simply reflect the level of esteem I hold our armed forces in.

[Sir Robert]

Thanks!

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Regarding the Black Watch tartan, some have said it is "basically" the same as the Campbell tartan, or "essentially" the same as the Campbell tartan.

Actually, the Black Watch tartan is the Campbell clan tartan. There is absolutely no difference in the sett whatsoever. Black Watch = Campbell. No difference.

In addition to being used as the Campbell clan tartan, the Black Watch is also used as a hunting tartan by Clan Grant and Clan Munro. And, because of its origins as a "government sett" it is used very often as a general use tartan by those with no clan connections.

It is not uncommon to find the same tartan shared by more than one clan, or having different names. For instance:
Campbell of Cawdor = Argyle District = MacCorquodale
Keith = Austin = Marshall
Hunter = Russel = Mitchell = Galbraith
MacIan = MacDonald of Glencoe
Morgan = Mackay Blue
MacDonald of Sleat = MacCullough

There are more, but this is what I can think of off the top of my head. What is interesting about the Black Watch, though, is not only that it is shared by three different clans (Campbell, Grant, and Munro), but that it is also a military tartan, and widely used as an all-purpose general tartan as well.

Aye,
Matt

[gmcdavid]

In addition to being used as the Campbell clan tartan, the Black Watch is also used as a hunting tartan by Clan Grant and Clan Munro.

This is very appropriate. All three clans were well represented in the early Black Watch, being politically reliable from the government viewpoint.

Glenn

[Bil]

Forgive my ignorance but what makes the Gordon tartan generic? Not that I'm a Gordon or that I intend to purchase a kilt in that tartan, I am just very interested.